The Walking Dead Season 3

[wissaboo]

Shane was a self-interested, murderous demon, and could not change, but Merle--the racist, sexist, violent criminal turns a corner before the end, thus the stereotype was melting

Shane was not, as he went along, anything like a "good guy," but I don't think "murderous demon" is a fair characterization.

Every thing he did was because he thought that was how he needed to be in the post-apocalyptic, post Rick, world. And, sometimes, he was right (the walker barn for example).

He became a villain but he was still a somewhat sympathetic one.

Oh, Merle, Merle, Merle. We barely knew ye. I felt bad for Daryl, anyway. Seeing your big brother in that condition would rip your guts out. So to speak.

One of the best parts of that scene was that Daryl's reaction seemed as much about finally letting go and getting angry with his brother for the years of abuse.

He didn't "kill" zombie Merle silently or quickly like he did other walkers. He punched him repeatedly, threw him to the ground and repeatedly stabbed him in the face. His brother was one of the only zombies to whom he didn't show a form of mercy.

I interpreted that at just anger at the whole zombie world thing. Like goddammit you havn't taken enough now my brother too?!

 

[Pavonis]

I don't think Merle abused Daryl. I think they were both abused by their father. Daryl looked up to his older brother as a protector, but Merle left Daryl alone with their father at the first chance he got. Daryl still didn't hate Merle, though. So I don't think Daryl was taking his anger out on Merle's walker. I think Daryl was just mad that Merle was dead.

 

[the G-man]

I interpreted that at just anger at the whole zombie world thing. Like goddammit you havn't taken enough now my brother too?!

If he had then charged the other walkers I'd see that, but given his anger was directly specifically at zombie Merle, I took it differently. Either way, well done.

I don't think Merle abused Daryl. I think they were both abused by their father. Daryl looked up to his older brother as a protector, but Merle left Daryl alone with their father at the first chance he got. Daryl still didn't hate Merle, though. So I don't think Daryl was taking his anger out on Merle's walker.

Merle's treatment of Daryl was belittling and mentally abusive in every single scene they had together. I don't think he abused Daryl in a physical sense but in a mental one.

 

[Mojochi]

I interpreted that at just anger at the whole zombie world thing. Like goddammit you havn't taken enough now my brother too?!

Perhaps some of that, but there was some personal angst in there too. I interpreted it as Daryl's angst that this is how it had to play out. At any time Merle going out like this could have been avoided were he to be less stubborn & wrongful. It just struck me as a "Why did it have to come to this, you stupid son of a bitch?" moment

Oh yeah, I think that one walker had a skull made of M&M candy shell.

I suppose that should bother me, but really... it doesn't all that much. It's Sci-Fi, with a fantasy epidemic. It could all just be part of the zombification effects. I let it go mostly

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Shane was a self-interested, murderous demon, and could not change, but Merle--the racist, sexist, violent criminal turns a corner before the end, thus the stereotype was melting

Shane was not, as he went along, anything like a "good guy," but I don't think "murderous demon" is a fair characterization.

It is fair. Not long after his childhood/best friend returns, he's aiming a rifle at him. Remember, they were nowhere near the season 2 level conflict at that point, but he considered murdering...his best friend.

Sounds like a murderous demon to me.

Let's not forget he murdered Otis by shooting him in the leg, to become walker dinner. I will not even entertain the notion that it was for the "greater good" of saving Carl. It was about his sick Lori obsession more than anything else.

No other member of the group would have shot Otis (based on how they were established up to that point).

He tried to kill Rick (attempt #2) at the school.

Then, there's Randall--murdered--and for what? To lure Rick out to the woods to kill him.

That's not surviving in the zombie world, as others (aside from the unhinged Governor) manage without plotting to kill at every turn. That is being a murderous demon.

And, sometimes, he was right (the walker barn for example).

No, that was not right. The zombies had been contained for some time, and never escaped. By opening the barn, and initiating the chaos to follow, Shane accomplished:

1. Sending Herschel to the bar, which leads to the entire Randall affair, including more conflict between Rick & Shane (triggered by Shane).

If Shane left the barn alone, it is arguable that the group would have been better prepared to deal with the coming walker herd, as they would have had all hands on deck, so to speak (not to mention more ammo), instead of being scattered in the woods, leading to desperate decision making (ex. Jimmy's failed rescue misison at the barn).

2. Carol was losing hope of ever seeing Sophia again, but thanks to Shane, her reunion was a devastating blow of gruesome finality. In short, he did not help matters.

Opening the barn accomplished nothing--other than giving Shane more self-made excuses to plot against his best friend.

The only choice for the survival of the group was to bring an end to Shane. Carol even comments on his poor leadership abilities (to Daryl) early in this season.

It says much that Merle--of all people--displayed mercy to Michonne..actually listened to her, when Shane only heard the brutal grunting between his ears.

 

[Mojochi]

I think it was clear Shane was fighting back murderous intent that 1st time he put Rick in his sights & Dale saw it

This whole show comes down to people who have something to live for & people who don't. Without Lori & Carl, Shane was a man with nothing left to live for. Without something to keep you going, sometimes the people end up like Shane or The Governor, reckless & dangerous

It's clear that Milton knew the Gov. when he was a different man, but now that he has nothing left, it's gone sour. The people who have nothing left must find something, the way Carol has, or they are surely doomed

Merle had nothing until Woodbury found him, & he devoted himself to being the worst he'd ever been in order to have it, until he realized Daryl was alive. That was a bigger hope for him, one he had more invested in than Woodbury, & that's why it played out as it did

 

[auntiehill]

^ Yup, agreed. All things considered Merle did pretty good there at the end. And I totally missed until you all pointed it out that it was Ben who threw himself in front of the Gov.

Not threw himself so much as stupidly stumbled in front of him just as Merle fired.

 

[Pavonis]

How could Ben's action be "stupid"? He didn't know where Merle was shooting from, and stepping forward was no more "stupid" than stepping back. It was just a matter of luck - bad for Ben and Merle, good for the Governor.

 

[Vendikarr]

I thought Merle had some military experience. In an ambush situation, your intended target should be your first shot, so you don't give away your position before achieving your objective. Unless your position is secure and you can complete your mission despite your location being known. His location was far from secure, seeing as a walker managed to draw him out of hiding.

Of course I know this is TV and the villain has to stick around until the end of his arc. But it just made Merle look like a screw up instead of someone with military training.

I don't see it that way. He never expected the Governor to be on the front line when his plan went into motion. The Governor wasn't his intended target. Anyone he could eliminate was, as he knew he'd be storming the guard positions. His mission was to cut the Woodbury numbers to better Daryl's odds of survival. Plus, the very second he got lucky & saw The Gov. He took & scored the kill shot, but Ben stepped in the way at the very moment

He couldn't just sit around & wait for the Governor to show up, the assault was time sensitive, using the walkers as a temporary diversion, so he could shoot down combatants & in the chaos go unnoticed for a short time

I thought it was actually pretty smartly done given it was a suicide mission, & it almost worked. Only a tenth of a second from eliminating the Gov.

Frankly, the Woodbury lot are a pretty poor unit. Rick's group has the edge there, & from the look of the finale teaser, they are either gone, or are in hiding & possibly plan to fight with guerrilla tactics, which given the state of their group, is as good a plan as they can muster. It is after all THEIR turf

I guess I saw it as more of a 'cut off the head...' situation, not a battle of attrition.

If all he wanted to do was take as many with him, it worked well.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Every thing he [Shane]did was because he thought that was how he needed to be in the post-apocalyptic, post Rick, world. And, sometimes, he was right (the walker barn for example).

Not everything. As others have pointed out, some of it was selfishness due to him not having a family to live for. He wanted Lori, and if his best friend got in the way Shane rationalized that eliminating Rick was the best most sound decision for everyone.

In a way, you could argue that Merle was a better man than Shane. Shane and Rick had been friends since high school and were supposed to be like brothers. But Shane was willing to screw Rick over when the situation got desperate after the ZA. Not so Merle with Daryl.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

I'm curious about the trope though. Is anyone an officer of the law or something like that profession that can provide an answer.

Why is it that when two officers are partners and one is not married and one is, the married one will die and the partner will marry their widow? Does this happen often in real life?

It was also pretty clear in the pilot that Shane wasn't stable. His conversation with Rick was odd as they eat their donuts and waited for radio traffic - on an unrelated note is there any canon as to how the virus started? In WWZ they say it came from the Three gorges Dam, but in TWD I haven't heard anything.

 

[Vendikarr]

is there any canon as to how the virus started? In WWZ they say it came from the Three gorges Dam, but in TWD I haven't heard anything.

Nope.. the zombie virus isn't the story. How team Rick survives is the story.

 

[auntiehill]

How could Ben's action be "stupid"? He didn't know where Merle was shooting from, and stepping forward was no more "stupid" than stepping back. It was just a matter of luck - bad for Ben and Merle, good for the Governor.

It was a joke. Geez.

 

[Pavonis]

How could Ben's action be "stupid"? He didn't know where Merle was shooting from, and stepping forward was no more "stupid" than stepping back. It was just a matter of luck - bad for Ben and Merle, good for the Governor.

It was a joke. Geez.

Not a very good one, apparently. Sarcasm doesn't come across on the Internet, if you didn't know. Or is this your first visit to it?

 

[Green Shirt]

Do men see hairless women as prepubescent, in a way?

Yes, exactly. That's the main reason it creeps me out.

Its better than having a stray hair in the back of your throat while you're taking care of business. It kinda takes you out of the moment.

 

[auntiehill]

How could Ben's action be "stupid"? He didn't know where Merle was shooting from, and stepping forward was no more "stupid" than stepping back. It was just a matter of luck - bad for Ben and Merle, good for the Governor.

It was a joke. Geez.

Not a very good one, apparently. Sarcasm doesn't come across on the Internet, if you didn't know. Or is this your first visit to it?

Whatever.

 

[Scout101]

I'm curious about the trope though. Is anyone an officer of the law or something like that profession that can provide an answer.

Why is it that when two officers are partners and one is not married and one is, the married one will die and the partner will marry their widow? Does this happen often in real life?

I can't speak to 'real life' examples, but I can understand the trope easily enough: Presumably partners and their families are close. At the very least, the surviving partner and the spouse will both be grieving the same person, and it's not a stretch to see them reaching out to each other for support. Since you've got a single man and woman in the same place emotionally, and both looking to fill a void, you can see where this might happen. Especially if you add in an apocolypse and delete the rest of the world/society that could potentially judge them...

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Frankly, the Woodbury lot are a pretty poor unit. Rick's group has the edge there, & from the look of the finale teaser, they are either gone, or are in hiding & possibly plan to fight with guerrilla tactics, which given the state of their group, is as good a plan as they can muster. It is after all THEIR turf

The smart thing to do is pack up and bail out. Michonne told them about the national guard attack, so Rick's group knows what kind of firepower Woodbury has. Why play with that? Leaving the prison is the best chance....but if anyone has any bomb making talents, and how to set it on a timer, now would be the time to build that surprise.

Guerilla tactics with a largely untrained girl (Beth), a newbie to marksmanship (Carol) and a baby is not recipe for success.

 

[Vendikarr]

Leaving the prison is the best chance....but if anyone has any bomb making talents, and how to set it on a timer, now would be the time to build that surprise.

Morgan had a crate overflowing with hand grenades. I'd like to think they brought a few.

Trip wires that pull pins shouldn't be too difficult to rig.

 

[Pavonis]

Evacuation is the best chance Rick's group has. They're out-numbered and out-gunned. Fighting, even from a defensive position, will only delay a loss to the Woodbury forces. But I don't see the production team straying too far from the comics at this point.