Jedi nerfed in TCW?

[EnsignRicky]

I like how Ahsoka and Ventress took down around a dozen or so Clones, all the while making light banter.

That scene alone explains perfectly how they could have easily survived Order 66.

 

[Set Harth]

I know based on the filmed evidence: Mundi barely deflected a few bolts before falling. Secura tured around, acted clueless (as if waiting for a cue to fall...) and died without lifting a finger. Zett-- a mere child--presented the greater, more effective response than two Jedi with decades of training over the boy. Not consistent at all.

Only when you carefully remove the Order 66 surprise factor which gets in the way of the argument. Jukassa wasn't marching into battle with a bunch of clones he trusted at his back. He knew from the moment of his on-screen appearance that they were enemies, just as Obi-Wan and Yoda did when they went to the temple.

Again, a lack of consistency: adult Jedi are assumed to have reached the end of their training--a certain level of basic proficiency in using the Force, so there's no excuse for the clearly adult temple Jedi to fall like mannequins

The adult Jedi inside the temple "fell like mannequins"? You didn't see any such thing. Besides, even in the event that Obi-Wan and Yoda's greater than average skill is somehow unable to be taken into consideration, when it comes to the temple there is still the surprise factor of Order 66 to consider, not to mention the fact that Obi-Wan and Yoda were facing a smaller number of clones.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Only when you carefully remove the Order 66 surprise factor which gets in the way of the argument.

Hardly. Yoda was also subject to this surprise, but he survived. Before you say he was tipped off by sensing the death of other Jedi, that same power should have applied to some of the other Jedi as well (since they did not all die at the same moment, and would have felt the disturbance), but it did not. Once again, another inconsistency.

Jukassa wasn't marching into battle with a bunch of clones he trusted at his back. He knew from the moment of his on-screen appearance that they were enemies, just as Obi-Wan and Yoda did when they went to the temple.

Soooo, this suggests the temple Jedi were the most clueless gang in the universe if they watched an army of clones enter the temple, (not to mention Anakin launching his own attack), and still none were able to successfully defend themselves or survive? Every Jedi in the temple? Really?

The adult Jedi inside the temple "fell like mannequins"? You didn't see any such thing.

Yeah, sure, because at 1:22 into the film, Jedi are not doing much other than falling like a mannequin. Trained Jedi--and they were not all younglings, either.

Besides, even in the event that Obi-Wan and Yoda's greater than average skill is somehow unable to be taken into consideration, when it comes to the temple there is still the surprise factor of Order 66 to consider, not to mention the fact that Obi-Wan and Yoda were facing a smaller number of clones.

A fair count comes away with 17 - 20 active clones in that scene. That's not small by any measure.

Then, there's the Jedi speed inconsistency again. Face it: George Lucas just tossed crap into the plot when it suited him, no matter the obvious problems.

 

[Set Harth]

Hardly. Yoda was also subject to this surprise, but he survived. Before you say he was tipped off by sensing the death of other Jedi, that same power should have applied to some of the other Jedi as well (since they did not all die at the same moment, and would have felt the disturbance), but it did not. Once again, another inconsistency.

It's cute how you keep predicting my responses by noting the obvious problems with your own position, but really, I don't need the help. You're conveniently leaving out the following facts: Yoda is over 800 years old and thus has more years of Force experience than literally anyone else we know of in the entire saga, and Yoda also is implied to have the second-highest midichlorian count on record, second only to the Chosen One. Because of these facts his possibly greater sensing is no inconsistency at all. You also seem to ignore the fact that for whatever reason Yoda was faced with all of two clones.

and still none were able to successfully defend themselves or survive? Every Jedi in the temple? Really?

You're still acting as if you watched all the adult Jedi in the temple face the clones. You did not. It's all in your imagination. And once again, though you ignored it the last time: overwhelming numbers. By your logic, any group is summarily dubbed "clueless" if a large enough force is used against it, and thus the charge becomes meaningless. ( Also, it's possible that some may have escaped the temple, and as far as I know this may be detailed in the EU somewhere. )

Yeah, sure, because at 1:22 into the film, Jedi are not doing much other than falling like a mannequin. Trained Jedi--and they were not all younglings, either.

No middle ground between youngling and master, eh? Since you seem to know things about what went on in the temple that even George Lucas doesn't know, and somehow got a closer look than the rest of the audience, tell me about these Jedi, plural, you see "falling like a mannequin". I suppose the Jedi in question must be veteran Jedi Masters, as opposed to padawans, right? And how do you know that these Jedi didn't kill a fair number of clones before dying? You're only seeing a few seconds of a longer incident. Number of clones killed is still the benchmark, right? Or has it been shitcanned in favor of "because the Jedi didn't survive, they're all punks"? Because by that measurement Jukassa did no better than anyone else.

A fair count comes away with 17 - 20 active clones in that scene. That's not small by any measure.

When compared against several thousand? I'm afraid it is. ( And I think you're adding about 5 clones to your fair count, but whatever. )