TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

[Seven of Five]

Definitely. I know that the producers were struggling with the budget by the end, hence why we ended up with stock CGI footage in the final battle. I suppose they couldn't justify spending money on making the new Defiant actually look new, which is a shame. It totally lessens the impact the end of The Changing Face of Evil had.

It's even almost comparable to VOY's shuttle situation.

Nah, I'm just being dramatic.

When It Rains... is Penumbra-style setup again, but more interesting, and with no Ezri/Worf subplot, and thus instantly better. I loved seeing Kira helping the Cardassians organise their resistance, which brings her character full circle. The lack of discussion about Ziyal was a bit of a shame though. I would think that someone would bring it up, just to get it mentioned for the sake of mentioning it.

Gowron on DS9 is a bit of an idiot compared to how he was on TNG. But I suppose in Way of the Warrior, and now these couple of episodes, he's merely serving a purpose. And Robert O'Reilly is always so game and just lives in the role, so it's easy to get drawn into all of the drama.

 

[TheGodBen]

"Glory in battle is not our way" is probably at the very top of The List of Things A Klingon Would Never Say, mind you.

True, I suppose the Salarians are more like those Romulan petaQ.

I don't have a problem with it. The new Defiant was meant to be the Defiant A and if by some miracle the new Defiant is ever seen again on film, it will almost certainly be identified as the Defiant A. Perhaps this will happen if DS9 is remastered.

I think that would be an acceptable change if they ever do a DS9 remastered, as it was the original intention of the producers, but I fear that Paramount would baulk at the cost of redoing the DS9 battle scenes in HD and would just upscale them.


Tacking into the Wind (*****)

This is another episode where I debated with myself whether or not to give it 5 stars, and I decided to for one big reason. This episode is more than a culmination of recent events, and it's more than a culmination of events from throughout DS9. This episode is the end of a journey Worf started back in TNG, specifically the arc that began in Sins of the Father. In that episode, co-written by Ron Moore, Worf in the outsider that sacrifices his honour to save a corrupt empire, whereas in this episode, also written by Moore, Worf is the outsider that challenges that corruption to restore honour to the empire. To do so, Worf must kill the man that he made Chancellor, and whose army he once fought in. This is a decade of stories spread across two series that ends with Worf briefly at the pinnacle of the Klingon Empire. It's good stuff.

Also of note are Ezri's wonderful speech about the death of the Klingon Empire, a speech that only Dax could make, and Sisko's order for Worf to do "whatever it takes" to stop Gowron. Picard, he is not.

It has not been in development quite as long as Worf's tale, but this episode also sees the conclusion of Damar's transformation from villain to hero. He may have been working against the Dominion for the last few episodes, but this is the episode where Damar decides that he doesn't just want the old Cardassia back, he wants to make a better Cardassia. Without outright saying it, he acknowledges Cardassia's cruelty and arrogance, particularly towards Bajor, and decides that it must end. There's a wonderful scene where Kira jabs him right after learning that his family has been killed that is almost painful to watch. This not only works to prod Damar onto the path of redemption, it's also a reminder that Kira, for all the maturity and restraint she has gained, still has that angry Bajoran inside her.

While this is happening, Odo is deteriorating rapidly, and there are some great moments for him, Kira and Garak that feed off of that. I really love the final moments of this episode where Kira tries to comfort him as Odo seems to accept his impending death.

Interestingly, while the Final Chapter thus far has maintained multiple story arcs throughout each episode, Tacking into the Wind really only has an A and B plot, with a tiny C plot on the side. Bashir and O'Brien have two scenes where they discuss how they're going to get the cure from Section 31, which sets up the next episode's exciting showdown!

Form of... handcuffs: 37
Form of... Dead Fish: 38
Stupid French Things: 7

 

[flemm]

Tacking into the Wind (*****)

My favorite episode of DS9, I think. So many great moments.

While the culmination of the Klingon storyline is certainly great, as is Damar's continued evolution, what stands out to me most is what an amazing character Kira is at this point. This episode is a really great showcase for her, even though it's not mostly about her.

It's also a bit unusual in that Garak works really well here as a supporting player, rather than scene-stealer. His interaction with Odo at the beginning is a really strong moment that harkens back to The Die is Cast. The torture scene is the first time we see Odo in that type of condition, I believe.

Sisko's "Do whatever it takes, Mr. Worf." is also classic. It takes a while for Worf to really come around to the idea, but what Sisko means is immediately obvious to us: "Kill him if you have to."

 

[MacLeod]

Hail Worf, Leader of Empire. Well his reign must be one of the shortest in Klingon History.

 

[Seven of Five]

An easily excellent episode. So many threads coming together makes me so very happy. Ezri's best moment of the season comes when she puts the Klingon empire in its place, which is enough to fire up Worf to do the right thing. And how far Star Trek had come to be at the point where the right thing is for Worf to kill Gowron. Amazing moment.

I already mentioned Kira's development in my last post, but she continues to be awesome here. Her putting Damar in his place is a very powerful beat for both characters.

All of this talk of the final chapter has finally inspired me to start my own rewatch. I haven't watched DS9 all the way through for a few years now, so it's good to catch up again. Just finished season one tonight.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Tacking Into the Wind is one of my favourite episodes. I love the way in which the Klingon and Cardassian stories mirror each other while also standing in such fascinating contrast to one another. The Klingon plot is about Worf finally taking steps to restore honour and glory to the empire, and hopefully setting the Klingons onto a better path; one in which they finally walk the walk as well as talk the talk, so to speak. The Cardassian story then has something that is at once very similar to this but is also a bit of an inversion of it - Russot mirrors the comments we hear from Klingons about "restoring the glory of the empire", but Damar rejects that vision and makes progress by accepting that the old Cardassia wasn't glorious at all. It's wonderful writing when we hear the same goal proposed twice, but we get two different answers to it, answers that despite being almost exact opposites both manage to be uplifting and satisfying, and both offering hope for a troubled society. Well played, writers, especially as it seemed so natural and uncontrived.

One thing I will say: I think that, in a sense, the Cardassians have fallen further than the Klingons, but thanks to this they've also progressed further, and made (or are now equipped to make ) the bigger step forward. The Klingons were falling apart - as Dax said so well, they were dying and she could no longer even sympathise - but Worf took the step to "restore" them, hopefully to something more in keeping with his idealistic view of what the Klingon culture is "supposed" to be. In other words, the "true" Klingon Empire has a chance to come back. Worf managed - just - to start the process of reversing that long decline, driving out that rot. Cardassia by contrast can't come back. It wasn't just dying, it's actually dead. But in realizing that, and realizing that maybe the old Cardassia shouldn't come back and that he has an opportunity to make a better Cardassia rise from the ashes, Damar gives us a satisfying conclusion that's very different from Worf's while also thematically similar.

To use Babylon Five to illustrate:

Worf is Emperor Turhan of the Centauri, trying to turn things around before the end:

"So much has been lost, so much forgotten. So much pain, so much blood. And for what, I wonder. The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible inbetween. But there is still time to seize that one last fragile moment. To choose something better, to make a difference, as you say. And I intend to do just that".

Damar is G'Kar of Narn, having already reached the end and gone past the point that it can be reversed, but seeing now opportunity for rebirth:

"You have the opportunity, here and now, to choose. To become something greater, and nobler, and more difficult than you have been before. The universe does not offer such chances often, G'kar..."

Having the Cardassian arc (which has been running since Season Two, when we were first given insight into the politics and gradual decline of Cardassia) and the Klingon arc (which, as TGB notes, has been running since TNG season three) hit their payoff at the same time is one of the smartest moves the writers ever made, in my opinion.

 

[flemm]

Having the Cardassian arc (which has been running since Season Two, when we were first given insight into the politics and gradual decline of Cardassia) and the Klingon arc (which, as TGB notes, has been running since TNG season three) hit their payoff at the same time is one of the smartest moves the writers ever made, in my opinion.

Definitely. Even the Section 31 material fits in nicely when you consider that, in each of the three story layers, there is a kind of insurrection, or rebellion against authority, with different implications in each case. Worf's rebellion succeeds, Rusot's is defeated, and O'Brien and Bashir hatch their plot to outwit Section 31.

The episode really has a lot of layers to it, particularly with Odo's condition deteriorating even as Bashir and O'Brien struggle with how to find the cure.

 

[tomalak301]

Kind of wish I followed this thread a lot closer. I've been rewatching DS9 (Finished the Circle Trilogy tonight) and I skimmed through this entire thread thinking I could add some comments but figuring that because it's been more than a year why bother.

To keep it current, I will say I loved Tacking into the Wind, and this was the episode I grew to like Ezri Dax.

 

[Paper Moon]

Kind of wish I followed this thread a lot closer. I've been rewatching DS9 (Finished the Circle Trilogy tonight) and I skimmed through this entire thread thinking I could add some comments but figuring that because it's been more than a year why bother.

To keep it current, I will say I loved Tacking into the Wind, and this was the episode I grew to like Ezri Dax.

I wouldn't mind hearing your comments. I mean, I don't know how much discussion they'd generate, being a year removed, but I'd still enjoy reading them.

 

[tomalak301]

Kind of wish I followed this thread a lot closer. I've been rewatching DS9 (Finished the Circle Trilogy tonight) and I skimmed through this entire thread thinking I could add some comments but figuring that because it's been more than a year why bother.

To keep it current, I will say I loved Tacking into the Wind, and this was the episode I grew to like Ezri Dax.

I wouldn't mind hearing your comments. I mean, I don't know how much discussion they'd generate, being a year removed, but I'd still enjoy reading them.

Well, there's not all that much to say other than I think from Duet to the end of the Circle Trilogy is probably my favorite long stretch episodes of the series. The more I watch DS9, the more I love the relations between Bajor and Cardassia and the politics of everything and all 5 of these episodes brought that to the forefront and were all written really really well. Also, The Siege has my favorite Jadzia Dax scene:

Dax: Great, seat of your pants technology
Kira: With your eyes Lieutenant, Not your pants.

Hell, that entire plot in the episode was my favorite of the entire trilogy. I know they tried to get Kira and Dax into a friend relationship (Way of the Warrior anyone?) but it didn't get much better than them in that tiny ship in The Siege.

 

[Paper Moon]

Kind of wish I followed this thread a lot closer. I've been rewatching DS9 (Finished the Circle Trilogy tonight) and I skimmed through this entire thread thinking I could add some comments but figuring that because it's been more than a year why bother.

To keep it current, I will say I loved Tacking into the Wind, and this was the episode I grew to like Ezri Dax.

I wouldn't mind hearing your comments. I mean, I don't know how much discussion they'd generate, being a year removed, but I'd still enjoy reading them.

Well, there's not all that much to say other than I think from Duet to the end of the Circle Trilogy is probably my favorite long stretch episodes of the series. The more I watch DS9, the more I love the relations between Bajor and Cardassia and the politics of everything and all 5 of these episodes brought that to the forefront and were all written really really well. Also, The Siege has my favorite Jadzia Dax scene:

Dax: Great, seat of your pants technology
Kira: Not your pants Lieutenant, your eyes

Hell, that entire plot in the episode was my favorite of the entire trilogy. I know they tried to get Kira and Dax into a friend relationship (Way of the Warrior anyone?) but it didn't get much better than them in that tiny ship in The Siege.

Ha, see, that all made me smile. Thank you.

I agree, that's a great scene between the two of them. And it's a good reminder of how far the series has come since then. Kira-Dax was a bit of a parallel to Bashir-O'Brien for a while, but that dynamic got tossed into the wind once Worf came along. (Although you do see it changing a bit as Kira-Odo began to develop.) But while the Bashir-O'Brien friendship grew and solidified, Kira-Dax was much less consistent. (Though we do still see Dax attempting "girl-talk" with Kira regarding Odo after the Dominion Occupation.) And now? Jadzia is dead and Kira and Ezri don't have much of a relationship. Bashir-O'Brien has a bit more of a brothers-in-arms vibe to it now, that we haven't seen in Kira-Dax since, well, "The Siege."

Also, I'd never thought of "Duet" through "The Siege" of an arc before, but I like it! (I know it's not exactly what you meant, but it planted the idea.)

 

[Dover]

Also, The Siege has my favorite Jadzia Dax scene:

Dax: Great, seat of your pants technology
Kira: Not your pants Lieutenant, your eyes

Hell, that entire plot in the episode was my favorite of the entire trilogy. I know they tried to get Kira and Dax into a friend relationship (Way of the Warrior anyone?) but it didn't get much better than them in that tiny ship in The Siege.

Their plot in The Siege is one of my favorites in the whole series. They really were on par with O'Brien/Bashir for a while, it's a shame it all fell apart.

 

[tomalak301]

Their plot in The Siege is one of my favorites in the whole series. They really were on par with O'Brien/Bashir for a while, it's a shame it all fell apart.

I think one of the reasons it fell apart was because Kira looked so out of place doing things that Dax wanted to do. I mean that scene in Way of the Warrior where they were in the holodeck and then first meet Worf, that was close to an embarrassing scene for Kira. Then you had Worf and Dax pair up and the rest is history. It is a shame we didn't see more of Kira and Dax though. I do know they both looked for each other in terms of advice, but that was pretty much it as the series went on.

 

[Paper Moon]

Their plot in The Siege is one of my favorites in the whole series. They really were on par with O'Brien/Bashir for a while, it's a shame it all fell apart.

I think one of the reasons it fell apart was because Kira looked so out of place doing things that Dax wanted to do. I mean that scene in Way of the Warrior where they were in the holodeck and then first meet Worf, that was close to an embarrassing scene for Kira. Then you had Worf and Dax pair up and the rest is history. It is a shame we didn't see more of Kira and Dax though. I do know they both looked for each other in terms of advice, but that was pretty much it as the series went on.

I think it touches, indirectly, on an issue that was present in all of the modern Trek series: imbalance of the sexes. Each series had no more than two female leads at a time (except for the first 20 episodes or so of TNG). In fact, not once, but twice, when a female character left the show, another female came in to replace her. [EDIT: Forgot about B'Elanna, so my argument isn't as strong as I first thought.] Logistically, that kind of arrangement will make it more likely that the writers will try to pair up two otherwise not-very-compatible female characters.

I mean, it makes senes from a 20th-century real-world perspective: two women in a primarily-male group will probably gravitate towards each other as friends, just as two men in a primarily-female group will probably do the same. But, just like in the real-world, a friendship born out of circumstance is less likely to thrive than one born out of compatibility.

We see it a bit in Troi and Crusher, as well. (I'm thinking of their "girl-talk" in "The Host," when they're at the spa [!!] together.) Generally speaking, we don't see much of a friendship between the two of them, except when it's expedient to the plot. (Of course, that could be said of many relationships in TNG, but I digress.)

In any case, I'm not trying to impugn the writers' motives here. In their position, I probably would've created the exact same cast. But I think it does play into the Kira-Jadzia relationship, its rise and demise.

"Tacking Into The Wind" is f'bleeping epic. Love that episode. Along with "The Dogs of War," best two episodes of the Final Chapter (including WYLB).

I've said before how I think by the end of season 7, the war had sorta tumbled out of everyone's hands (in-universe). At the beginning of S6, there's a bit of a problem-of-the-week attitude about the war. No one's really thinking about what it'll be like after the war (partly because no one knew if there was going to be anything after the war). But now? Now people have realized that there's a good chance they'll come out of this alive, one way or another, and they'll have to deal with the consequences, whoever wins the war. Like any trauma, it's actually two-fold: there's the trauma itself, and then there's the trauma of realizing for the first time the lifelong ramifications of that trauma.

Killing Gowron was a manifestation of one of those life-long ramifications of the war. I think Worf and Sisko knew the war would end within the year, one way or the other, but they also knew that killing Gowron would have consequences for years or decades to come. There's a particular weightiness to it that I don't think we see earlier in the war. (Like, "dying is easy; living is hard.")

In that way, "Tacking Into The Wind" captures very well, I think, just how tired everyone has gotten of the war. (Not unlike "Paper Moon" captured how Nog's eagerness had been blown away.)

 

[Dover]

I think one of the reasons it fell apart was because Kira looked so out of place doing things that Dax wanted to do. I mean that scene in Way of the Warrior where they were in the holodeck and then first meet Worf, that was close to an embarrassing scene for Kira.

Yeah, that was awful. DS9 started out as a Trek series that seemed to want to break away from the double standard with female characters. Dax is a woman who is also kind of a man, and Kira is the butchest butch ever to be butch in the galaxy. I was like, "This is so cool! I can't believe a studio went for this." In the first couple seasons I felt like they were always given equal treatment to the male characters.

And then Dax went from being "one of the guys" to "Worf's girlfriend who spends her spare time at the bar and talking about boys," and after years someone woke up and decided it needed to be clarified that Kira is, in fact, a woman (I'm not sure why the Intendant wasn't enough proof), and suddenly she had heels and a skin-tight uniform, which by season 7 was no less insulting than Troi's or 7 of 9.

The early episodes with Dax and Kira going on missions together were a great step forward in Trek's depiction of women. It's frustrating that they were doing so well and then lost sight of it.

 

[heavy lids]

Tacking Into the Wind is such a great episode. I'm currently at the end of DS9 and this episode is coming up very soon.

 

[TheGodBen]

Extreme Measures (*½)

Since whittling down the various arcs to just two stories worked out so well for the previous episode, going even further and just focusing on one story should be awesome, right?

No. Extreme Measures is a mess. There are a lot of reasons for this. According to Memory Alpha, the original plan for this arc was that Kira and Odo would head to Section 31's headquarters to discover the cure, but then the decision was made to send those two characters to help Damar's rebellion and the idea was adapted for Bashir and O'Brien. Then the budget for the episode was cut considerably and the story had to be adapted to take place entirely on existing sets, so Section 31 had to come to DS9. In the desire to do one final O'Brien/Bashir adventure, and with the need to pad the episode out for an hour, the writers came up with the idea of the story taking place inside Sloan's brain.

In my opinion, the core problem was the desire to turn this plot into an O'Brien/Bashir adventure. Section 31 is a conflict of ideologies, it's at its most interesting when it's just two characters in a room arguing with one another so that us wannabe intellectuals can fawn over the show's brilliant moral complexities. It's not the right venue to attempt a buddy comedy. This is an organisation that has attempted to commit genocide and murder a member of DS9's crew, so as amusing as it is to watch O'Brien awkwardly refuse to admit his platonic love for Bashir, it's out of step with the gravity of the situation they're in.

Making things even more disappointing, the first 15 minutes of the episode are really strong. There's a touching scene between Kira and Odo, there's a neat scene where O'Brien and Bashir have to explain their plan to Sisko, and there's several good scenes between Bashir and Sloan. Things only go downhill once Bashir gets the bright idea to go into Sloan's head to find the cure, at that point it becomes a generic sci-fi mind-screw adventure.

It could have been so different. All they needed to do is take that first 15 minutes and pad it out a little bit with a few more scenes between Sloan and Bashir, then fill out the rest of the episode by pushing ahead with the rest of the final chapter arcs. Show Kira and Garak returning to the Cardassian rebels and set up the following episode's mission to Cardassia. Show some scenes of Martok adjusting to his new role as Chancellor. Maybe add a scene or two of Rom and Nog working to decipher the Breen weapon before Rom becomes Nagus in the next episode. There could be a scene between Sisko and Ross about Sloan and Section 31, and the dirty deals those two characters have done in the past. At this point, DS9 is an exciting playground of stories and characters, so the decision to focus this entire episode on just one of those stories and two of those characters was bizarre. Maybe the version of the episode I outlined would have been two expensive because of all the actors involved, but it would have fit a lot better in the final chapter than the episode we got.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

And then Dax went from being "one of the guys" to "Worf's girlfriend who spends her spare time at the bar and talking about boys," and after years someone woke up and decided it needed to be clarified that Kira is, in fact, a woman (I'm not sure why the Intendant wasn't enough proof), and suddenly she had heels and a skin-tight uniform, which by season 7 was no less insulting than Troi's or 7 of 9.

Agreed. And as a woman I was a little annoyed with Kira's uniform change. Especially because it happened at about the time 7 of 9 showed up on VOY, it was such an obvious ploy to sex her up.

 

[HaventGotALife]

After watching the final 10 episodes of DS9 where I had only passively watched them in 1999, I found your commentary relevant and incredibly witty. I was either nodding my head in agreement or laughing out loud.

 

[Seven of Five]

And then Dax went from being "one of the guys" to "Worf's girlfriend who spends her spare time at the bar and talking about boys," and after years someone woke up and decided it needed to be clarified that Kira is, in fact, a woman (I'm not sure why the Intendant wasn't enough proof), and suddenly she had heels and a skin-tight uniform, which by season 7 was no less insulting than Troi's or 7 of 9.

Agreed. And as a woman I was a little annoyed with Kira's uniform change. Especially because it happened at about the time 7 of 9 showed up on VOY, it was such an obvious ploy to sex her up.

I totally agree. The catsuit was a bit much for Kira, and I have to say that Trek's excessive use of them was pretty embarrassing. It was just pathetically obvious pandering to casual viewers, and of course the poor Trekkies who are so desperate for sex they'll go gaga over these poor women and watch, even if they're reading the dictionary.

And on the subject of embarrassing things, we have Extreme Measures.

What a waste of an interesting story. I never knew that they planned to have Kira and Odo go find the cure together; that really would have been a fascinating confrontation. I can understand budget cuts scaling down on big ideas, but how much money would it take to just have our characters talk to Sloan, rather than jump about in his head