"10 Reasons Deep Space Nine Was Cruelly Misjudged"

[flemm]

Sure, we're being a little smug about it, and there's a tendency to exaggerate how bad we had it like a group of Yorkshiremen, but that's human nature for you.

In order to even watch an episode of DS9, I was forced to run a gauntlet of simple-minded TNG fans pummeling me with rotten vegetables, all the while being mocked in the mainstream media as a serial-story-arc-loving deviant.

Those were the days

 

[TheGodBen]

In order to even watch an episode of DS9, I was forced to run a gauntlet of simple-minded TNG fans pummeling me with rotten vegetables, all the while being mocked in the mainstream media as a serial-story-arc-loving deviant.

Those were the days

You had it easy. To watch DS9 I used to have to run past TNG fans that threw gravel in my face while wearing a straitjacket, and I was forced to watch it outside in the snow on a tiny black and white TV while text flashed on the screen telling me I was going to hell for liking Garak.

 

[BillJ]

I love nana visitor/kira in my opinion she is by far the best female character on star trek.

Couldn't agree more! Nana Visitor is the best actress to grace the main cast of a Trek show. And Kira has always been one of my favorite characters of all the series. I'm puzzled that some viewers might be put off by her.

Everyone has different levels of enjoyment from performances of actors as fictional characters.

Visitor always came up short for me partially because of the nasally, whiny voice. But also because she simply gets blown out of the water by Michelle Forbes performance in Ensign Ro. Forbes pulled me into the Bajoran plight through a haunted recollection of the death of her father. Whenever Visitor told of the occupation, it always came across as someone complaining about a long-line at the local Walmart.

Your mileage may vary...

 

[lurok]

One of the many benefits of watching DS9 through in one go is one can really appreciate how Visitor/Kira grows as an actress and character. Probably one of the best developed arcs in Trek.

 

[JustKate]

I love nana visitor/kira in my opinion she is by far the best female character on star trek.

Couldn't agree more! Nana Visitor is the best actress to grace the main cast of a Trek show. And Kira has always been one of my favorite characters of all the series. I'm puzzled that some viewers might be put off by her.

I think Kira was a fabulous character. I disagree that she was whiny. What she was was was bitchy, but I don't intend that to be at all derogatory. I loved how abrasive and prickly she was. Those were among the qualities that made her such a memorable and realistic character. And I agree with those who say she's the best regular female character in all of Trek.

Visitor always came up short for me partially because of the nasally, whiny voice. But also because she simply gets blown out of the water by Michelle Forbes performance in Ensign Ro. Forbes pulled me into the Bajoran plight through a haunted recollection of the death of her father.

I liked Ensign Ro, too, but jeez, what's the point in comparing a performance that lasted just a few episodes to one that lasted seven years? I think you're idealizing Forbes just a bit, BillJ. She was great...for those few episodes. She might have been great on DS9, too, but we'll never know, will we?

 

[flemm]

And I agree with those who say she's the best regular female character in all of Trek.

Yeah, I think so. And that's not really a knock on anyone else. I've seen pretty much everything pop sci-fi on tv has to offer, and what Visitor was able to do as Kira is pretty remarkable, really, as far as creating a vivid, fully-realized character is concerned.

You had it easy. To watch DS9 I used to have to run past TNG fans that threw gravel in my face while wearing a straitjacket, and I was forced to watch it outside in the snow on a tiny black and white TV while text flashed on the screen telling me I was going to hell for liking Garak.

A straitjacket? Ha! You were lucky. I had to strip naked for the merciless flagellation I would endure prior to going outside to lie down in the snow for hours on my front lawn in the hope that I might hear a few small snippets of dialogue being rebroadcast on my neighbor's transistor radio.

 

[Ln X]

Visitor always came up short for me partially because of the nasally, whiny voice. But also because she simply gets blown out of the water by Michelle Forbes performance in Ensign Ro. Forbes pulled me into the Bajoran plight through a haunted recollection of the death of her father. Whenever Visitor told of the occupation, it always came across as someone complaining about a long-line at the local Walmart.

Your mileage may vary...

I always thought Ro seemed more human than Bajoran, she did not appear to be pious plus as a member of her species she was a bit of an oddity leaving Bajor and then joining Starfleet. Ro was a good character, but if you wanted a main character to represent Bajor, then Ro just doesn't cut it. Though it doesn't help that Ro was developed BEFORE the writers came up with the Prophets, the resistance groups and Bajoran faith.

Whereas with Kira she always came off Bajoran (even if in the first season or so she (Nana Visitor) didn't quite get into her role), but I thought Duet straightened out any problems. Can you imagine Ro taking Kira's place in Duet? Ro might not have even heard of the Gallitep labour camp for that matter!

 

[BillJ]

Since the role was originally created with Forbes in mind, I can imagine they would've adjusted accordingly.

 

[flemm]

Since the role was originally created with Forbes in mind, I can imagine they would've adjusted accordingly.

Well, Forbes was going to play Ro (it would have worked liked Chief O'Brien).

It's hard to say how that would have played out, really. The entire show would have been different because Kira's involvement in the occupation and the resistance defines so many of the show's main storylines: Duet-Circle Trilogy, Terok Nor (starting in Necessary Evil), the Occupation Arc, Kira goes to Cardassia, just to name a few.

 

[BillJ]

Since the role was originally created with Forbes in mind, I can imagine they would've adjusted accordingly.

Well, Forbes was going to play Ro (it would have worked liked Chief O'Brien).

It's hard to say how that would have played out, really. The entire show would have been different because Kira's involvement in the occupation and the resistance defines so many of the show's main storylines: Duet-Circle Trilogy, Terok Nor (starting in Necessary Evil), the Occupation Arc, Kira goes to Cardassia, just to name a few.

Much of it would've been the same as they would've simply tweaked the Ro backstory. Ro would've been a long time resistance member who finally ran away to Starfleet.

They tweaked much of the Trill backstory from TNG to make the Curzon/Jadzia Dax story possible.

 

[flemm]

Much of it would've been the same as they would've simply tweaked the Ro backstory. Ro would've been a long time resistance member who finally ran away to Starfleet.

They tweaked much of the Trill backstory from TNG to make the Curzon/Jadzia Dax story possible.

That's not comparable at all, as Jadzia was not a crossover character. Miles is a closer comparison (providing familiarity/established affection in the new setting).

I have never heard anything about tweaking Ro's backstory, but rather: Ro was going to be the first officer, when Forbes turned it down, they created Kira to replace Ro, then cast Visitor as Kira.

DS9's overall story was not planned out in advance past the pilot, but was something the writers pulled together and developed over time. Since Kira inspired a large chunk of what they did, it is logical to assume that it would have been very different.

 

[Lance]

On some level I agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread -- that DS9 was "ahead of its time"; that audiences in the mid-90s probably reacted against it worse than audiences today probably would -- but it can't be denied that, for whatever reason, DS9 was less popular than TNG. I think this is just the luck of the draw though. The trouble with spin-offs is that risk of decreasing returns. Its possible that any follow-up to the massive success of TNG would have been given a (relatively) lukewarm reception.

Personally, I appreciated DS9 at the time -- heck, I appreciated VOYAGER at the time too -- but I can also see why there were some quarters with who DS9 just didn't "take".

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Actually I think that in many ways, Deep Space 9 was comparable to Knots Landing. Both of them were spinoff shows which were never as popular as the original but pushed the envelope an little more, and which were, although not groundbreaking, slightly ahead of their time.

 

[MacLeod]

On some level I agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread -- that DS9 was "ahead of its time"; that audiences in the mid-90s probably reacted against it worse than audiences today probably would -- but it can't be denied that, for whatever reason, DS9 was less popular than TNG. I think this is just the luck of the draw though. The trouble with spin-offs is that risk of decreasing returns. Its possible that any follow-up to the massive success of TNG would have been given a (relatively) lukewarm reception.

Personally, I appreciated DS9 at the time -- heck, I appreciated VOYAGER at the time too -- but I can also see why there were some quarters with who DS9 just didn't "take".

Well as you say there is the rule of dimminishing returns. Which would explain VOY and ENT a bit, but there is more to it than that. For some who where new to the franchise might find those shows interesting, but for other longer term followers of the franchise they might have found those shows dull and repatitive of what the previous shows has done before. TNG's biggest advantage when it came out was it was one of the few Sci-Fi genre shows on at that time. It's success demonstrated that Sci-Fi could work on TV and everyone elsershed to get Sci-Fi shows out so by the time DSN came out there was far more competition for the same audiance group. If two networks schedule two Sci-Fi shows opposite each other one of them is going to lose out. Rememer this is the days before DVR's, and we where still on VHS, so we as an audiance might not miss it, but the ratings wouldn't show it.

Today, I can DVR weeks worth of episodes to hit in a marathon session. With today's 24/7 lifestyle, it's not always easy to sit down when something first airs on TV. TV has changed a lot over the decades, and audiance figures have been in general decline for years. Is this because of comptition or quality or a combination of both?

 

[Nacluv]

Re: Man Walks on Moon; Germans Bomb Pearl Harbor

I found the article to be quite frivolous and trivial. The author really never goes beyond the obvious, never tangents on something beyond the concrete, limpid discordances.

And WTF?:

Unlike Spock or Data, Odo was quite content to not be human. In the early episodes, he went out of his way to deride human values whenever possible. Sometimes, he had a point.

EDIT: And I've always found this to be the most exaggerated mantra among DS9 fans, not to mention that it's not nearly as veracious as many seem to want to believe. Though I do find the really extreme ones to be amusing. I'm of course referring to those who alleges that the earlier shows literally never delineated and illuminated any character flaws.

They could be stubborn, petty, even spiteful. They made mistakes. Most importantly, they were a complete 180 from the utopian ideals presented in The Next Generation.