How many reset buttons?

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't mind that the crew forgave Janeway for stranding them. It was the 'Starfleet' thing to do, and most of the major Maquis crewmembers had backstories that made it seem like they wouldn't have wanted to doom the Ocampa to Kazon slavery either. But, they should have had a story where like 1/5 of the crew sided with Seska.

My biggest complaint about the direction Voyager went in is that they never had to really confront the negative consequences of sticking with Starfleet morals the way DS9 did. Besides a handful of times where it kept them from short cuts home, it seemed being moral always worked out for them.

 

[Gotham Central]

I thought that the episode Learning Curve covered it pretty well (addressing the conflict).

That was one episode, there should have been several episodes that dealt with Maquis Federation conflict. There were only a handful of episodes that touched upon this plot point at all during the entire series.

Ok, then lets just say for the sake of argument there was conflict between both parties and political views were more important than survival. Then what exactly IYO would have been the key moment that would have made them both quit being adversaries?

Actually...from a dramatic point of view, what I would have done was steadily ramp up the tension with the Maquis. Show them gradually feeling more and more frustrated with Janeway, her decision and her rules...then have it reach a breaking point. Have Janeway make a SERIOUSLY controversial decision that ultimately makes everyone's life harder...the Maquis decide that they have had enough and want out of this little arrangement. They confront both Chuckels and Janeway and ask to be let out at the next space port. The Maquis give Chuckles an ultimatum...he can stay and be Janeway's puppet, or he can show some leadership and lead them home. Janeway is FINALLY forced on confront the fact that her actions may have critically damaged their attempt to get home since now Voyager is left with fewer crew members than it needs to function. She tries to make concessions that appease the Maquis, to no avail...they want to go their own way. A season ends with Voyager stopping at a friendly port and letting out a sizeable chunk of the crew and then flying away short handed.

The following season would then feature a dual track story format (smilar tot he behind enemy lines storytelling on DS9)...showing the Maquis and Voyager taking their own separate paths home (starting with the Maquis procuring a ship).

Needless to say that the crews would stay divided for a while...and both sides would have succeses and spectacular failures. But in the Trek tradition, something, perhaps a looming threat, would bring the two crews back together (perhaps in a Pegasus/Galactica kind of way at first and then back on the same ship). This time when the crews merged there would be a real consensus that this is the best option and that it really is a mutual decision based on mutual respect. The new unified status quo would be very different than where the show started. Janeway (and Tuvok) would have to acknowledge the reality that this new situation is very different than what was planned when they left DS9. Voyager is on a trip that might very easily take decades and that it is no longer purely a Starfleet ship. Maybe they keep the ranks but ditch the uniforms...who knows. The point is that this new storyline would feel very different than any Trek we would have seen to that point. Hell, given a choice I would severely damage Voyager during the process of joining the crews and force them to repair it to the point that its almost a new ship. Thus when they got underway again, it really would feel like a new direction.

Needless to say all of that could have been done without ever going as dark as BSG, while still making the series feel unique from anything that we'd seen on TOS and TNG. In effect, you'd be really committed to using Voyager's unique premise to its fullest.

 

[exodus]

I don't mind that the crew forgave Janeway for stranding them. It was the 'Starfleet' thing to do, and most of the major Maquis crewmembers had backstories that made it seem like they wouldn't have wanted to doom the Ocampa to Kazon slavery either. But, they should have had a story where like 1/5 of the crew sided with Seska.

Why would they side with a Cardassian? They're the ones that tried killing them off and forced them out of their homes to begin with.

My biggest complaint about the direction Voyager went in is that they never had to really confront the negative consequences of sticking with Starfleet morals the way DS9 did. Besides a handful of times where it kept them from short cuts home, it seemed being moral always worked out for them.

That was the metaphor used in "Equinox" about the plaque on the wall falling down. The more Janeways morals slipped, the more the ship became in disarray. That's how Voyager started out, remember Janeways speech about how sticking to their morals and principals would get them thru.?

I think the 3 modern capt. all had a trail.
Picard's was against Q to prove mankind was worthy.

Sisko's was to the Prophets and to live up to being the "chosen" one.
I think Janeway's was to her own morals. I think that's why they made much of her decisions questionable. Look at "Endgame" Adm. Janeway lost her morals but went back to save herself from becoming that broken woman.

There are differences, but X-Files proved that an ongoing story can work in a TV show.

That was proven long before the X-Files, which TPTB running the show are also aware of. Paramount didn't want Voyager to be a tight ongoing story because they wanted to sell the show into syndication because it brings in more money. It's one of the reasons Paramount spent way more money promoting TNG and Voy over DS9.

 

[MacLeod]

Wanting to sell to syndication doesn't mean you can't have tight ongoing stories. All it means is that it has to air in a specific order.

 

[exodus]

Wanting to sell to syndication doesn't mean you can't have tight ongoing stories.

Yeah, it kinda does.
Syndicated TV doesn't like to buy tight ongoing series because they're aware their audience doesn't tune in everyday for a rerun show. They also prefer to show eps. of series out of sequence for the same reason. It's one of the main reasons why when TNG went into reruns, they never showed the two-part eps. unless they did special marathons. The reason is, most syndicated rerun shows are shown during the ours people are coming home from work or school and are mostly to preoccupied either making dinner or other family obligations to watch a rerun show daily.

Think about it, if your watching DS9 in rerun for the first time and you miss two or more eps. because you can't be home to see it, there's a good chance you've missed vital parts of the story. If an audience misses too much to keep track, they'll stop watching. So now you've lost much of your viewers during that time slot. So syndication just blew money on a show that many folks aren't tuning in for. TPTB at Paramount know all this and know that a syndicated network is more willing to buy a show that doesn't have a tight ongoing story than one that does.

It all comes down too, how much can we get back out of the money we invested in it.

 

[MacLeod]

Well when shows are re-run (at least in the UK) they are always shown in order. Even the multi-part stories which are shown over the course of a few nights.

And even if you miss a few episodes in a serliased show the "LAst Time/Previously" shows you the basics of what you missed and need to know.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Or you can get so frustrated that you buy the DVDs.

It took me ten years to record all of Ally McBeal off the television onto videotape.

I spent a lot of time with calendars and episode lists waiting for specific episodes to crop up in the rerun cycle when life would get in the way.

Seriously. 10 years. (the show aired for 5 years, so it was only the second half of the decade which was me being anally rainman about filling the tiny holes in my collection.)

Alternatively, much later, I managed to download it all from megaupload over night.

 

[exodus]

Well when shows are re-run (at least in the UK) they are always shown in order. Even the multi-part stories which are shown over the course of a few nights.

And even if you miss a few episodes in a serliased show the "LAst Time/Previously" shows you the basics of what you missed and need to know.

Yes, how programming over seas is run is very different than it is here in the US. I'm not sure if it was this post or another one but I had mentioned Trek in general seems to be more appreciated in the UK than in the US. I know in my area (NY tri-State), DS9 was barely rerun at all due to it's tight arc' based story. It wasn't until it reran on cable that folks could watch the entire series again. TOS, TNG and Voy., until a fairly recantly reran in syndication all the time.....but out of order.

 

[MacLeod]

And are shows like "24" never re-run?

 

[lurok]

Well when shows are re-run (at least in the UK) they are always shown in order. Even the multi-part stories which are shown over the course of a few nights...

Yes, how programming over seas is run is very different than it is here in the US. I'm not sure if it was this post or another one but I had mentioned Trek in general seems to be more appreciated in the UK than in the US. I know in my area (NY tri-State), DS9 was barely rerun at all due to it's tight arc' based story. It wasn't until it reran on cable that folks could watch the entire series again. TOS, TNG and Voy., until a fairly recantly reran in syndication all the time.....but out of order.

First time I saw TOS (apart from odd episode in UK) was late night reruns on US TV. Felt like it was always on. Occasionally TNG and VOY but don't recall ever seeing DS9 rerun. Or maybe I just avoided as not a fan then.

 

[Anwar]

And are shows like "24" never re-run?

I haven't seen any, no.

 

[exodus]

Well when shows are re-run (at least in the UK) they are always shown in order. Even the multi-part stories which are shown over the course of a few nights...

Yes, how programming over seas is run is very different than it is here in the US. I'm not sure if it was this post or another one but I had mentioned Trek in general seems to be more appreciated in the UK than in the US. I know in my area (NY tri-State), DS9 was barely rerun at all due to it's tight arc' based story. It wasn't until it reran on cable that folks could watch the entire series again. TOS, TNG and Voy., until a fairly recantly reran in syndication all the time.....but out of order.

First time I saw TOS (apart from odd episode in UK) was late night reruns on US TV. Felt like it was always on. Occasionally TNG and VOY but don't recall ever seeing DS9 rerun. Or maybe I just avoided as not a fan then.

Reruns of TOS are how Trek gained popularity originally.

And are shows like "24" never re-run?

No.
Plus, the extremely mature nature and themes of "24" doesn't allowed it to be shown before Prime time viewing due to parental television guidelines. Syndication times of regular US TV run from 4 till about 7 or 8. Anything showing extreme violence, mature themes or sexual situations can't be shown before 9:00pm.

 

[Harvey]

And are shows like "24" never re-run?

The show was sold into off-network syndication in between its fourth and fifth seasons. Due to its heavy serialization, it isn't that valuable on the syndication market though, which is one of the reasons it was cancelled after eight seasons.

 

[exodus]

And are shows like "24" never re-run?

The show was sold into off-network syndication in between its fourth and fifth seasons. Due to its heavy serialization, it isn't that valuable on the syndication market though, which is one of the reasons it was cancelled after eight seasons.

Was it cancelled or was it just time for it to end it's run?


I just remember watching the first season and they showed a business man getting a bj in a alleyway from a young male prostitute and saying: "What the Hell!! This show is NOT getting rerun ANYWHERE!!!"

 

[jpch]

I really hate when people just make a Voyager hate thread...its so annoying yes there was so many reset buttons,but it was very well made and so original,not many series can pull it off. people who hate reset buttons go watch DS9.
oh wait they had to reset and reuse the same CGI over and over,oh and everyone had their shields offline oh and we had fire explosions in space oh oh and we have to survive idiotic characters on the space station that are useless. yes i am very angry because i did not workout this week...Voyager ran for 7 years so yes it was good with or without reset buttons.

 

[R. Star]

I really hate when people just make a Voyager hate thread...its so annoying yes there was so many reset buttons,but it was very well made and so original,not many series can pull it off. people who hate reset buttons go watch DS9.
oh wait they had to reset and reuse the same CGI over and over,oh and everyone had their shields offline oh and we had fire explosions in space oh oh and we have to survive idiotic characters on the space station that are useless. yes i am very angry because i did not workout this week...Voyager ran for 7 years so yes it was good with or without reset buttons.

You post about how much you hate people being critical of Voyager... then proceed to rip into DS9? A bit of a contradiction there I think.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Shhhh!

You don't tell fat people that they're fat if they're not going to do anything about it

 

[MacLeod]

One person's great is anothers person good, another persons good is another persons bad.

We all have different views, many TV shows and films have plot holes in them, many re-use expensive effects over and over again.

Now if you are enjoying something you tend to forgive the odd plot hole, if you aren't being engaged by the story each and every plot hole seems bigger and bigger.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

When you stare into the plot hole the plot hole stares back at you.

That's why I just slap some cardboard over 'em and pretend they aren't there.

 

[jpch]

I really hate when people just make a Voyager hate thread...its so annoying yes there was so many reset buttons,but it was very well made and so original,not many series can pull it off. people who hate reset buttons go watch DS9.
oh wait they had to reset and reuse the same CGI over and over,oh and everyone had their shields offline oh and we had fire explosions in space oh oh and we have to survive idiotic characters on the space station that are useless. yes i am very angry because i did not workout this week...Voyager ran for 7 years so yes it was good with or without reset buttons.

You post about how much you hate people being critical of Voyager... then proceed to rip into DS9? A bit of a contradiction there I think.

Not a contradiction at all i am just trying to show people that they will always accept or ignore the issues of most series but when it comes to Voyager its unforgivable they criticize it very harshly while many others were as much or more inconsistent. my main issue is with those ridiculous threads to bash the show indirectly it gets annoying.