Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[MickJo1701]

All I know, is that its going to be great that one half of Best of Both Worlds looks awesome, while the other half looks like ass.

Ridiculous. These comments really piss me off when you haven't even seen Season 2, never mind the fact that you have no idea what CBS may have planned for BOBW. Try writing a critique when you've SEEN what you're supposed to be criticizing.

Don't be posting screencaps if you don't want people criticizing the work. It's pretty simple. It is a definite step down from season one.

And if the pattern holds, Best of Both Worlds II won't be done by CBS-Digitial.

People shouldn't jump the gun just yet, who is reworking Season 4 is up to TPTB not us. If CBS does listen to the feedback from the fanbase/consumers then the they will know what we would like to see from the seasons to come. I for one appreciate all the coverage, previews, trailers and caps from the episodes that are posted on TrekCore.

 

[davejames]

This reminds me of the Star Wars special edition. "Only" about 1% of the movies have been affected, so what's the big deal? Well, plenty.

I liken the Star Wars trilogy changes and now season 2 of TNG to a beautiful new sports car that's been gauged along the sides by a key. Yes, the engine still roars, the seats are just as comfortable, the suspension still feels great, but the joy is gone because it feels ruined. Even if I do my best to look away from it, I still know it's there. IMO, anyway.

Some say the season 2 effects work is no big deal. Some say the Star Wars special editions are no big deal. I disagree.

Yeah the SEs were pretty bad, but that was a case of new CG effects being inserted into a movie from the 1970s. The difference in style was jarring as hell.

Here we're just talking about model shots that maybe aren't composited as perfectly as they could have been, and may not look movie-quality, but are still pretty damn good for a scifi TV show.

And most important, they still look consistent with the series they came from.

 

[BillJ]

Ridiculous. These comments really piss me off when you haven't even seen Season 2, never mind the fact that you have no idea what CBS may have planned for BOBW. Try writing a critique when you've SEEN what you're supposed to be criticizing.

Don't be posting screencaps if you don't want people criticizing the work. It's pretty simple. It is a definite step down from season one.

And if the pattern holds, Best of Both Worlds II won't be done by CBS-Digitial.

People shouldn't jump the gun just yet, who is reworking Season 4 is up to TPTB not us. If CBS does listen to the feedback from the fanbase/consumers then the they will know what we would like to see from the seasons to come. I for one appreciate all the coverage, previews, trailers and caps from the episodes that are posted on TrekCore.

I guess my gripe with FrontierTrek is this: he's posting screencaps from season two effects shots that suffer in quality compared to season one. But then says not to criticize the work because we haven't seen it yet. Then what is the point of posting the screencaps if they're not indicative of the quality we will be seeing?

I'm still peeved that a ton of websites, including his, missed the glaring audio issues from season one. It means their reviewer is either a shill for CBS or incompetent. Judging by how he's reacting to the criticism of season two, I'm starting to lean towards shill. YMMV.

 

[jimbotron]

And most important, they still look consistent with the series they came from.

Consistent with the SD broadcasts, mostly, but not always. Consistent with other season 2 episodes, largely yes. Consistent with season 1, not at all.

The compositing and lighting of the models reminds me of Star Trek V's effects. Just as in 1989, the main effects group was unavailable, work went to an inexperienced team that meant well but with a compressed schedule, and the results speak for themselves.

 

[TroiFan4ever]

I saw teh commercial for this on YouTube... including a clip of the cast reunion. Wow, they aged gracefully, if I don't say so myself. Patrick Stewart in 2012 looks just as he did in the 90's!

 

[TheSeeker]

BillJ, I think you are being unfair to FrontierTrek. In his review of Season 2 he openly admits that he too is disappointed with what we are seeing.

For Season 2, HTV have taken a different approach to visual effects. In all honesty, I found the second season to be a somewhat mixed bag of hits and misses with these shots. Some work is truly stunning – the new digital matte painting for the Borg Cube interior is a work of art: we are treated to steam rising from vents and Borg drones walking around the cube as the camera pans out. It’s clear an awful lot of time and effort went into that. On the flip side, a lot of work just doesn’t meet the (admittedly high) standards set by CBS Digital in Season 1. Whilst I respect the team’s intention to remain ardently true to the original show, as I made my way through the season I started to question why some planets have been created with blurry textures (almost appearing like they’ve been upscaled from standard definition) which jar so much with the beautiful HD renders worked on by Max Gabl and CBS-Digital for Season 1.

Text bolded by me for emphasis.

 

[BillJ]

BillJ, I think you are being unfair to FrontierTrek. In his review of Season 2 he openly admits that he too is disappointed with what we are seeing.

For Season 2, HTV have taken a different approach to visual effects. In all honesty, I found the second season to be a somewhat mixed bag of hits and misses with these shots. Some work is truly stunning – the new digital matte painting for the Borg Cube interior is a work of art: we are treated to steam rising from vents and Borg drones walking around the cube as the camera pans out. It’s clear an awful lot of time and effort went into that. On the flip side, a lot of work just doesn’t meet the (admittedly high) standards set by CBS Digital in Season 1. Whilst I respect the team’s intention to remain ardently true to the original show, as I made my way through the season I started to question why some planets have been created with blurry textures (almost appearing like they’ve been upscaled from standard definition) which jar so much with the beautiful HD renders worked on by Max Gabl and CBS-Digital for Season 1.

Text bolded by me for emphasis.

Then why be so defensive here when people criticize the screencaps? I don't frequent TrekCore.com anymore so I hadn't seen his season two review.

 

[RAMA]

So far the first video Maxwell reviewed was good quality. The stills aren't as good an indicator of what we'll see as the actual video...but so far the quick footage I have seen (and on a movie screen) from season 2 looks very comparable to season 1, though not perfect. Seems like much ado about nothing to me really. Why does it seem ST fans are so neurotic?

 

[TheSeeker]

I can't speak to his defensiveness but there certainly is a lot of over-the-top criticisms of something most of us haven't viewed yet.

Am I disappointed with the screenshots of the VFX we've seen thus far? Yes. Do they "look like ass". I don't think so.

 

[BillJ]

I can't speak to his defensiveness but there certainly is a lot of over-the-top criticisms of something most of us haven't viewed yet.

Am I disappointed with the screenshots of the VFX we've seen thus far? Yes. Do they "look like ass". I don't think so.

What I've seen, mostly, looks like ass compared to the work CBS Digital did. Saying they look better than the season two DVD's is a no-brainer. They could've simply up scaled the DVD's and it would've looked 'better'.

CBS-Digital set the bar for how the effects should look and HTV-Illuminate looks to be falling far short of that benchmark.

 

[22 Stars]

So far the first video Maxwell reviewed was good quality. The stills aren't as good an indicator of what we'll see as the actual video...but so far the quick footage I have seen (and on a movie screen) from season 2 looks very comparable to season 1, though not perfect. Seems like much ado about nothing to me really. Why does it seem ST fans are so neurotic?

It is called Asperger syndrome, and affects many Trek and general 'nerdist' types to some extent. See also Big Bang Theory; Sheldon. It is not something to be taken lightly, which they do on that show from what I understand.

 

[MickJo1701]

I can't speak to his defensiveness but there certainly is a lot of over-the-top criticisms of something most of us haven't viewed yet.

Am I disappointed with the screenshots of the VFX we've seen thus far? Yes. Do they "look like ass". I don't think so.

Some attribute the differences to an inferior effects house or it being done on a reduced budget, correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK the only thing we know that's concrete is there was a different approach taken with the material for Season 2 to 'recreate the original experience'.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

So far the first video Maxwell reviewed was good quality. The stills aren't as good an indicator of what we'll see as the actual video...but so far the quick footage I have seen (and on a movie screen) from season 2 looks very comparable to season 1, though not perfect. Seems like much ado about nothing to me really. Why does it seem ST fans are so neurotic?

It is called Asperger syndrome, and affects many Trek and general 'nerdist' types to some extent. See also Big Bang Theory; Sheldon. It is not something to be taken lightly, which they do on that show from what I understand.

That's the most ridiculous post I've seen on this board in a long time. So, because some of us are justifiably disappointed by the clear and obvious drop in FX quality produced on S2 - it means we're suffering from Aspergers Syndrome, to which you hold up a fictitious TV character to support your assertion.

 

[BillJ]

Apologies to FrontierTrek for the "shill" remark. Just caught me in a foul mood earlier.

But I didn't see anyone getting defensive when people were drooling over the season one screencaps nor was anyone telling people they needed to wait for the set to actually come out before commenting positively on the work done by CBS-Digital.

 

[FrontierTrek]

Then why be so defensive here when people criticize the screencaps? I don't frequent TrekCore.com anymore so I hadn't seen his season two review.

I am NOT defensive when people criticize screencaps. I am defensive when people extend that criticism to the WHOLE season and episodes in Season 4... that's unreasonable and reactionary.

You are UNFAIRLY criticizing it. As others have pointed out, i'm more than fair in my comments and have given a totally balanced review in every sense of the word. Indeed, Maxwell Everett who ALSO has the set backs up my point. Is he a shill for CBS also?

Such ridiculous statements. I refuse to be drawn anymore.

Edit - OK, I see your apologies. I think I'll be leaving this thread, it's just turned silly in the past week or so. The lack of objectivity from some people is astounding.

 

[BillJ]

Edit - OK, I see your apologies. I think I'll be leaving this thread, it's just turned silly in the past week or so. The lack of objectivity from some people is astounding.

But why was it okay to fawn over season one based on pre-release screencaps but wrong to be critical of season two based on pre-release screencaps?

Honestly, if HTV does season four, what makes you think we'll see an upgrade over the work of season two? If they are re-hired it will be because CBS is pleased with the work they've done. Correct?

 

[Dac]

I think FrontierTrek is standing by the saying don't judge a book by it's cover. Which is fair.

The problem is we've seen the cover, the glossary, pages 12, 48, 77, 79, 81, 90, 99, 102, 110, 147 and 210, and 12, 77, 81, 90 110 and 147 looked bad compared to screencaps from the first season. To stretch the analogy to the limit - we haven't read the whole book yet, and I'm sure its fine as whole - but a sizeable part of the individual elements don't stand up to scrutiny the way they did in season 1.

It's a bit like going to the bathroom in a high end japanese hotel vs taking a dump in a gas station toilet. Your doing the same thing, but they're very, very different experiences.

 

[throwback]

As someone who is mentally disabled, I didn't appreciate that my dislike for what I am seeing is somehow tied to the fact that I am not like other 'normal' people.

The work on Season 2 was done by a company that hasn't updated its web site since 2010. This company was notable as the employer of Dan Curry. They have done work on restoring films, such as Patton, for DVD. The company promoted itself as a leader in restoration.

Yet, when screenshots were released, and when those screenshots were compared to work done on an earlier season, what was demonstrated was that the company was not a leader in restoration. The quality of their work fell in between SD and HD. Their efforts fell short of the mark set by CBS Digital.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

As someone who is mentally disabled, I didn't appreciate that my dislike for what I am seeing is somehow tied to the fact that I am not like other 'normal' people.

Well said, sir. Through familial circumstance, I am intimately familiar with Aspergers/Autism - and that comment was not only crass, but frankly, quite insulting.

 

[Harvey]

They have done work on restoring films, such as Patton, for DVD. The company promoted itself as a leader in restoration.

Wait -- this isn't the same company that did that shoddy restoration work on Patton a few years ago, is it? A restoration that scrubbed out so much detail that Fox shelled out for a new high definition transfer this year.

(A Google search finds this page, which claims they were indeed responsible for that work.)