Is WB simply afraid of Wonder Woman?

[JD]

I've never understood what the problems are with female lead action movies. Is it just sexism or is there more to it?

I think a big part of the appeal of action movies in general is protagonist identification and wish fulfillment: when I see and Iron Man or a Bond movie, I get to pretend/wish I was the guy, beating up baddies, wielding awesome gadgets and getting the girls. But as rich and badass as, say, Jolie's Lara Croft is, I don't at any level, even a subconscious one, want to be her, because I'm fine with being a dude. And, if she gets in a romance with a dude... well, I don't want to be her then, either. Whereas when Bond asks Agent Fields to help him find the hotel stationery... that's a different story.


Now, I enjoy watching dramas, comedies, and other genres with leading female roles just fine. I loved Prometheus a I dug Hanna. But...

But do you really need to be the same sex as the main character to relate to what their going through in something like WW. Sure we aren't the same sex, but I still related to what Katniss went through in Hunger Games, or what Sarah was going through when I watched Labyrinth the other day. There are plenty of situations that are common to both sexes that you can use in a movie like this. Hell, I really didn't have that much relating to Bella when I watch Twilight (yeah, I watched Twilight and I liked it). Now I'm not saying I imagined hooking up with Edward Cullen, but that doesn't mean I couldn't think about what it would be like to hook up with Edwina Cullen.

Personally, I love kick ass women and would be one of the first people in line for a good Ms. Marvel, or Wonder Woman movie.

I like strong female characters as much as anyone, but am not super-nuts about seeing superwomen kick and toss men around. Call that sexism if you like, I guess. I'd happily see a WW movie if the reviews were good enough, but I'm not clamoring for one.[/QUOTE]
Well, there are plenty of female villains in the DC universe that she could kick and toss around.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you relate to Bella Swan on any level, it's time to give up ad move to Cleveland.

 

[Samurai8472]

Does anyone remember this statement by the WB in 2007?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-207_162-3347604.html

The Web site Deadline Hollywood Daily claims Warner boss Jeff Robinov has issued a decree: "We are no longer doing movies with women in the lead."

Two movies headlined by power-house actresses didn't live up to expectations this year. Nicole Kidman is an Oscar-winning actress, but her most recent film "Invasion" might have been called "The Desertion" after it flopped at the box office.

"But that was just a bad movie," Cagle said. "It wasn't because Nicole Kidman was in it. It was because it wasn't a good movie."

The same happened with Jodie Foster's "The Brave One." The two-time Oscar-winner's flick fell flat. Both were released by Warner Brothers.

I don't think much has changed in 5 years

 

[Gaith]

Now, I enjoy watching dramas, comedies, and other genres with leading female roles just fine. I loved Prometheus and I dug Hanna. But...

But do you really need to be the same sex as the main character to relate to what their going through in something like WW.

Of course I can relate to emotions experienced by females. The Golden Compass is my favorite book bar none. You don't think I enjoyed Prometheus and Hanna for their compelling male characters, now, do ye?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

The Golden Compass is my favorite book bar none. You don't think I enjoyed Prometheus and Hanna for their compelling male characters, now, do ye?

That's a conundrum. I don't know how anyone could enjoy The Golden Compass, Prometheus or Hanna on any level.

 

[Harvey]

Come now. Even if one were to take those films to task for all their sins, Hannah is at least enjoyable for its long take action photography and Prometheus for its excellent production design.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Come now. Even if one were to take those films to task for all their sins, Hannah is at least enjoyable for its long take action photography and Prometheus for its excellent production design.

You're right, what I said was unfair. But in my opinion, there's no point in looking for nice things to say about mediocre movies: life's too short and there are thousands of good movies I'd rather watch.

 

[Gaith]

Hanna and Prometheus also both had fine lead performances from Ronan and Rapace. Also, please note that I called The Golden Compass my favorite book; I said nothing about the movie.

 

[JD]

If you relate to Bella Swan on any level, it's time to give up ad move to Cleveland.

I wasn't talking about any of the specific events or actions in the movie I just meant the ideas in general. All I meant was that it is not impossible for a male to relate to things happening to a female protagonist or the other way around.

 

[Kelthaz]

Of course I can relate to emotions experienced by females. The Golden Compass is my favorite book bar none. You don't think I enjoyed Prometheus and Hanna for their compelling male characters, now, do ye?

Yet for some reason you can't relate to actions performed by women such as beating up bad guys, wielding cool gadgets, and being all badass?

 

[Gaith]

I wasn't talking about any of the specific events or actions in the movie I just meant the ideas in general. All I meant was that it is not impossible for a male to relate to things happening to a female protagonist or the other way around.

Surely this statement constitutes a BBS Moment of Courage. Who on Earth would say that it was?

(Hint: reread my earlier posts carefully before replying "Gaith".)

Of course I can relate to emotions experienced by females. The Golden Compass is my favorite book bar none. You don't think I enjoyed Prometheus and Hanna for their compelling male characters, now, do ye?

Yet for some reason you can't relate to actions performed by women such as beating up bad guys, wielding cool gadgets, and being all badass?

I can't really relate to men or women doing that, as those aren't exactly traits/skills of mine. But while seeing male characters doing so can serve as wish fulfillment/projection fantasies for me personally, female characters can't.

I don't see what's so hard to grok about this. You and JD seem to be making a blithe conflation of relatability with personal wish fulfillment that I never have, and in so doing are beating up on a straw man. Congrats.

 

[Kelthaz]

I can't really relate to men or women doing that, as those aren't exactly traits/skills of mine. But while seeing male characters doing so can serve as wish fulfillment/projection fantasies, female characters can't.

I don't see what's so hard to grok about this. You're making a conflation of relatability and wish fulfillment I never have, and in so doing beating up on a straw man.

And why can't women fulfil that same wish fulfilment? What's so hard about watching the badass things the female protagonist is doing and imagining yourself in her position without also picturing yourself with a vagina?

 

[Gaith]

And why can't women fulfil that same wish fulfilment? What's so hard about watching the badass things the female protagonist is doing and imagining yourself in her position without also picturing yourself with a vagina?

Why are you getting so bent out of shape over what I've clearly labeled as my own personal wish fulfillment projections? Would you like to critique my favorite erotic acts, also? Perhaps you'd like to evaluate my preferences in cereal varieties while you're at it?

 

[Harvey]

Come now. Even if one were to take those films to task for all their sins, Hannah is at least enjoyable for its long take action photography and Prometheus for its excellent production design.

You're right, what I said was unfair. But in my opinion, there's no point in looking for nice things to say about mediocre movies: life's too short and there are thousands of good movies I'd rather watch.

This, on the other hand, is quite fair. Personally, I'm as fascinated by the mediocre movies as the great ones, but I can understand your point-of-view.

 

[theenglish]

I think people forget that Iron Man was the success it was because it was good. It had great reviews and reached a cross audience of people who don't normally like super-hero movies. Salman Rushdie raved about how good it was (granted he also said he didn't like the ending when it turned into a super-hero movie) and normally "snooty" critiques liked it too. This success crossed over to the other Marvel movies.

Wonder Woman, if it is good, will do the same thing as Iron Man.

 

[Gaith]

I think people forget that Iron Man was the success it was because it was good.

No. Nobody has ever for a moment forgotten that.

Wonder Woman, if it is good, will do the same thing as Iron Man.

The mere act of saying so does not make that true. And, on a related matter, where the devil's my Hot Rod 2?!

 

[Kegg]

The issue with Iron Man is not whether or not it was good, but that it got greenlit, and which a Joss Whedon written Wonder Woman could not get done.

 

[Redfern]

Whenever I read the title of this thread, I keep picturing some wimpy, ineffectual upper manager cowering beneath his desk as Wonder Woman leans over it supporting her upper body with her arms (which would provide the pencil pusher a glorious view of her cleavage if he just had the courage to crawl from his hidey-hole).

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Greg Cox]

FYI: EW.com has an update on the CW's proposed teen Wonder Woman series, tentatively titled Amazon. Apparently they haven't green-lighted a pilot yet, but they're starting to think about casting.

Could work as a companion series to ARROW. Certainly TV has been a lot more hospitable to female action heroes than movies have: Xena, Alias, Buffy, Nikita (twice), etc.

Not to mention a certain iconic TV series back in the seventies . . ..

 

[Taylirious]

^ I am all for 'Amazon'!

http://wonderwomantv.com/5158/wonder-woman-tv-update-the-cw-warner-bros-casting-an-amazon-meet-iris/