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sf/f TV development news - 2013

Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

^^ Rockne O'Bannon is the only reason I might give it a try.

And I don't see why it has to be a choice between one or the other. Both can be worth doing. There's value in developing a rich, ongoing continuity, but there's also value in exploring variations on a theme. It's better to have both than be restricted to only one. Yet until 2009, we've been stuck with only one Trek continuity. The continuous approach has been thoroughly mined, but the alternate-realities approach has barely been attempted. I think that's a missed opportunity. I'd love to see a range of different reinventions of the Trek universe. It could be fascinating to see the fresh takes different creators could bring.
How can you thoroughly mine a universe? There's an infinite amount of opportunities in the concept; Trek novelists have been proving that for decades. Now the audience has the flash-bang "alternate approach" of Abrams' reboot in the theater, so why not continue enriching the more adult universe of the original on TV? There's your variety of approaches.


That's not what I said at all. What I said was that Gene Roddenberry himself didn't want TNG to be particularly consistent with TOS. There was a lot about TOS that he was unhappy with or embarrassed by -- compromises he had to make for budgetary or practical reasons, scientific or cultural assumptions that had come to seem dated and silly by the '80s, story decisions made by other writers and producers that he didn't approve of -- and he saw TNG as his opportunity to make a new start, to reinvent the universe.
Okay, fine. It's a challenge to write within the context of a shared universe; obviously you know that, since you do it. A good writer can take the inconsistencies or the errors and so forth and build something from them, the way writers like Roy Thomas and Steve Englehart and Kurt Busiek did for the Marvel Universe. They didn't need no stinkin' reboots. They had the Right Stuff. :mallory:

Yes, it was superficially passed off as a continuation, but fans today have gotten so fixated on the minutiae of continuity that they've forgotten how common it's always been for creators of fiction to do what we'd now call a soft reboot, to offer a pretense of continuity while actually reinventing a lot about the universe (like the way Batman's origin story in the comics kept changing over the decades, or the way Superboy comics radically rewrote Superman's backstory).
Yeah, fine. Like I said, sometimes it works, sometimes it's necessary for business reasons and a lot of times it's just plain bad. I'm advocating the approach I think is best.

Also, you're simplifying the history considerably. These days TNG pleases old and new fans alike, but it was a long journey to get there. For the first couple of seasons, plenty of TOS purists were as vehemently opposed to accepting TNG as "true" ST as a lot of fans are today about the Abrams movie. Heck, the original TOS cast themselves were a lot slower to accept TNG as the real deal than they were to accept Abrams Trek. It was years before Shatner and Nimoy came around. (Although at the time, they were still appearing in Trek movies and would've seen the new cast as replacements who could threaten their future livelihood.)

Look, the simple fact is, fans who are resistant to change are going to be hostile toward a new Trek series whether it's in the same continuity or not. They always have been. If something is in a new continuity, they denounce it for not being in the old one; and if it's in the old continuity, they denounce it for failing to get it right. So setting another series in the old continuity wouldn't help it. If anything, it seemed to hurt Enterprise.
I'm not simplifying anything. I remember the history. There were a few malcontents all along the way, but TNG was accepted pretty quickly by most. DS9, VOY and ENT had increasingly more detractors because they strayed farther and farther from the core concept (though I happened to enjoy them all).

Maybe something that made a completely clean break, that wouldn't be judged by a litmus test of how many continuity minutiae it honored or broke, would be freer to get judged on its own merits. I know I liked Enterprise better once I set aside my initial "Oh, that's not what I would've expected" reactions and took it on its own terms. Too much concern for continuity with other stuff outside a work can get in the way of enjoying the work itself.
So, again, if you're going to do that, why not just create something completely new, rather than just recycle names and terminology? Would RHW's Defender be improved by calling it Star Trek and naming the captain Kirk?
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

"Stinkin' reboots?" Your prejudice closes your mind to the possibilities. Star Trek is supposed to be about embracing the new and different, not condemning and fearing it.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

It also embraces humor, a concept you've always had trouble with. ;)

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ[/yt]
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Of course I get the reference, but your choice to use that reference is symptomatic of your trouble opening your mind to new takes on a fictional franchise. And because your mind is so completely closed, I see no reason to waste my time trying to have a conversation about this with you.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

"Stinkin' reboots?" Your prejudice closes your mind to the possibilities. Star Trek is supposed to be about embracing the new and different, not condemning and fearing it.

Something entirely new, not a reboot or remake or reimagining, is about "embracing the new and different." Most reboots and remakes and reimaginings fail because they kept something old that doesn't fit with the new, instead of "embracing the new and different."
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Exactly. I don't entirely dismiss reboots, but I much prefer that an existing concept be either built upon or else that something new be created.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Let's nip the "dark and gritty" tangent in the bud; he hates that series with a passion.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

More like I hate what it represents; the series itself was mostly notable for its mundanity. But, since I didn't like the original either, I didn't really care much about it.

To answer your question, the most recent reboot I've liked is Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated. In fact, I think it's the best version of the concept ever.

But artistically successful reboots are certainly very rare.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

But artistically successful reboots are certainly very rare.

Only because artistically successful anything is rare. It's Sturgeon's Law: Ninety percent of everything is garbage. People always blame it on the category, but it's got nothing to do with the category. No matter what category you look at, you'll find plenty of failures and only a few successes.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

But reboots have the added drawback of expectations. Same with adaptations. Most of the time "the book was better."
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Continuations have built-in expectations, too.

Of course, marketing ensures that most movies are being seen by audiences with expectations.

And "Most of the time, the book was better" seems to me to be a confirmation of Sturgeon's Law, not the value of remakes. (Or, if you'd prefer, reboots or re-imaginings -- me, I'm not sure those terms have much use outside of marketing designed to avoid the stigma of remakes).
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

(Or, if you'd prefer, reboots or re-imaginings -- me, I'm not sure those terms have much use outside of marketing designed to avoid the stigma of remakes).
I think reboot has a purpose when it's talking about getting a franchise to reset rather than an individual film. I mean Abrams' Star Trek and Batman Begins and Casino Royale are not remakes of previous films, but they are clearing the detrius of their preceding films and getting back to basics. The stories may be derived or partly derived from other sources but none of them are straight up remakes of an earlier picture.

While van Sant's Psycho or the Coen Brothers Ladykillers are straight remakes of previous tales, retelling the same story with the same characters.

I don't think they're mutually exclusive terms, obviously - nuBSG can be fairly called both a reboot and a remake and one could argue the same for Rise of the Planet of the Apes (a quasi-remake of Conquest of the Planet of the Apes as much as it was also cleaning the slate of the Apes franchise) and so on.

Re-imagining though remains to me the pretentious term thrown around for Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

(Or, if you'd prefer, reboots or re-imaginings -- me, I'm not sure those terms have much use outside of marketing designed to avoid the stigma of remakes).
I think reboot has a purpose when it's talking about getting a franchise to reset rather than an individual film. I mean Abrams' Star Trek and Batman Begins and Casino Royale are not remakes of previous films, but they are clearing the detrius of their preceding films and getting back to basics. The stories may be derived or partly derived from other sources but none of them are straight up remakes of an earlier picture.

Well, technically Casino Royale was the third time around for that particular Bond tale, but we'll agree that the first two adaptations don't really count . . . .

Just to show my age, I'd also add the early Hammer Films back in the late fifties and early sixties, which basically rebooted the old Universal Horror franchises . . . and quite successfully.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

1. Sturgeon's Law is not actually a law.

2. Not only are Sturgeon's percentages more or less arbitrary, there are only two categories, good and crud

3. If you simply add more reasonable categories, such as great art, excellent, mediocre, subpar and crud, it immediately becomes obvious that reboots/remakes/reimaginings are rather deficient in great and excellent, and rather abundant in subpar and crud.

4. This kind of modal difference in distribution of quality is also a modal difference due to the category of drama as such.
 
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

^^ I agree. Sturgeon's Law makes its point, but obviously doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Continuations have built-in expectations, too.
Well, that's a good point. But I think, also, that continuations are generally more wanted than remakes or reboots.

Just to show my age, I'd also add the early Hammer Films back in the late fifties and early sixties, which basically rebooted the old Universal Horror franchises . . . and quite successfully.
But those were more like re-adaptations of literary works.
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Just to show my age, I'd also add the early Hammer Films back in the late fifties and early sixties, which basically rebooted the old Universal Horror franchises . . . and quite successfully.
But those were more like re-adaptations of literary works.

I don't know. I've always found that an arbitrary distinction. By that reasoning, the remakes of PLANET OF THE APES, PSYCHO, and THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL (among others) should get a pass since the original films were all based on literary works, but those movies are commonly cited as bad or unnecessary remakes. Whether or not the original film was based on a book or not really has little to do with the quality or merit of any movie remakes or reboots. If the original movie is regarded as a classic, like THE WIZARD OF OZ or TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, some people are going to regard it as untouchable, regardless of whether it was a literary adaptation or not.

Or to use more skiffy examples, is it okay to remake LOGAN'S RUN (which was based on a book), but not okay to remake FANTASTIC VOYAGE (which wasn't)? Again, that seems like a meaningless distinction to me.

(There's also the fact that moviegoers don't necessarily know or care if there was a book or short story first. Are people going to be more receptive to a remake of THE FLY or THE THING if they're familiar with the original short stories? I doubt it.)

As for Hammer, it was mostly the first films in the series that count as literary adaptions; otherwise they were churning out Dracula and Frankenstein sequels like Universal did. Plus, of course, their MUMMY movies were very much based on the Universal films, not any established literary work.
 
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Re-imagining though remains to me the pretentious term thrown around for Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes.


Not necessarily: I would think that re-imagining would be the best term for, as an example, the BBC's recent SHERLOCK series.

dJE
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

A Star Wars TV series is interesting mostly because, if successful, it could inspire Paramount to do a Star Trek series-- hopefully one that ignores the film and maintains the continuity of the original franchise.

Corporations take their cue from what has been successful most recently. CBS wouldn't care that Abrams made the warp nacelles the wrong color or whatever it is that irks some fans about that movie.

If the next movie is also a big hit, and it probably will be, that's all CBS will care about. They'd turn the reins over happily to Bob Orci if he wants the job, because he has the credibility of being associated with recent success. Them it's up to him what universe the series is set in, or even if the audience can tell the difference.
 
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