Why is Nemesis hated so much?

[JarodRussell]

That changed when Paramount went with a JJ Abrams, a director that knew how to do big budget movies. Even those that didn't like STXI have to admit that movie looked awesome.

Before Abrams, nobody was ever given a big budget to begin with.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Robert Wise was.

 

[JarodRussell]

Robert Wise was.

That's, like, 9 films with low budget, each of them feeding upon the sets and props created for the first film.

 

[Silversmok3]

Nemesis is a crummy movie. Not a bad Star Trek movie, not a bad TNG movie, not a bad two-part episode,not a bad sci fi story-it is simply a crummy movie no matter how you dissect it.

The villian's action make no sense. How can the audience feel the tension of a situation if the bad guy's actions can't be remotely followed or understood?

Shinzon wants to get to know the man he was cloned after. Shnzon wants destroy Earth and expand the Romulan Empire with him as Prateor. This was shown in the movie between Hardy and Stewart's scenes.


Destroying Earth would cripple Starfleet and make it easier to take over the Alpha and Beta Quadrant for the Romulans. Kill the head and the body will die. This was said repeatedly in the movie.


For Shinzon it was about legitimatizing his existence. This was also stated in the movie. Shinzon says his life is meaningless while Picard is still alive. After a long dog fight that left both ships crippled. Shinzon decides to kill Picard with the Thalaron pulse. He states that "Some ideals are worth dying for aren't they Jean-Luc". Shinzon wanted destroy everything Picard stood for. By destroying Earth not only would Starfleet be weakend but the deeds of the man he was cloned after would be forgotten. No one would being singing the praises of Picard and all the heroic things he did in a galaxy dominated by the Romulans. While Shinzon's legacy throughout history would be that he was the man that brought down Earth and secured victory for the Romulan Star Empire in the Quadrant. In the same sense that Nero will always be remembered by the Vulcans of the XI timeline since he detroyed their planet and billions of Vulcan lives.


Shinzon was a slave, and hates Romulans. It really is that simple. Sent to die by working in the mines of Remus for dilithium for hours everyday for years. While under the abuse of Romulan guards and then later sent to fight the Dominion for his Romulan oppressors. Kind of hard to be attracted to a woman of a race of people who have treated you like garbage all your life. While to audience Donatra is a hot and sexy piece of Romulan ass, to Shinzon she's not a woman. This is also said in the movie. Troi is admittedly not as hot as she was during the show but to Shinzon, a 25 year old human male who has only ever seen Romulan and Reman females, and most likely never been with a woman, he probably saw a milf in Troi. It was apparent he was enamored with her. Being young and having the needs of a man. Once again to us the audience Troi is definitely withered pastures but to Shinzon's she's the first woman he's attracted to.


BUDGET BUDGET BUDGET. In the script the final battle was going to feature a battle between a fleet of Romulan and Starfleet ships. Since the budget was limited they could only afford to have the 4 ships in the battle. Had they had the budget of XI, we could've gotten something truely awesome and epic.



I don't have a defense for this scene. Riker's place should've been on the bridge in case he needed to take over for Picard in the event of Picard's death.

Kolarus III? That entire scene is so bad its like what a Micheal Bay movie would look without any explosions or hot women.

I concept of the ARGO is interesting but in the film it's used as action movie fodder. While this isn't a bad thing, fans should remember what land travel in Trek was in the past. Beaming to one location, walking to wherever else you need go. The ARGO makes sense as a fast transport on terrain not uniform. Done correctly and with more depth and time and money we could get something grand like what Peter Jackson did with the LOTR movies and the wide and aerial shots of the scenery. Walking is cool and all but it really just shows that Starfleet is limited to runabout shuttles and starships. No cgi enviroments and cgi spaceships that show the terrain and landscapes of a planet like George Lucas does. Something that always bothered me is Starfleet's lack of fast ground transports This was painfully demonstrated during the Dominion War. Episodes such as Rocks and Shoals and Siege of AR-558, where the battle between the Jem'Hadar was waged on foot by two sects with laser guns. While I don't think Starfleet needs AT-ST walkers like the empire. Waging a war with two armies only using ships in space and not ground vehicles when it came to fighting on a planet's surface seemed impractical and unrealistic. Starfleet a primarily exploration institution should have ground transports of some kind.

Nemesis is a sad movie , which is doubly awful considering the stellar episodes we've seen that same exact cast deliver in the series. Imagine the story of All Good Things with the budget of Nemesis-that's the potential which was lost to history when it came out.

Yeah because the writers on the shows never made mistakes on the episodes in each season or movies. Ronald Moore and Brannon Braga penning All Good Things, but following that immediately with Generations that cluster fuck of a movie. They really screwed the pooch with that one. While they redeemed themselves with First Contact, GEN is still horrible. Michael Piller who wroter Yesterday's Enterpirse, Best of Both Worlds and helped launch DS9 wrote Insurrection which is worse then GEN.

OK. Point 1: Why does Shinzon want to "get to know" a man he hates and will eventually kill? Crusher said that the blood procedure would probably kill Picard. Considering Shinzon had but a week to live,he'd be better served skipping the Romulan ale and biscuits.

Point 2estroying Earth would be bad news, to be sure. But destroy the Federation? That's like saying nuking Washington D.C. is going to destroy America. It wouldn't be a good thing , but there are other planets in the Federation besides Earth.

Point 3:Shinzon may hate Romulans, but he's a 25 year old man. As one myself, when I see a hot chick I see a hot chick. Political motivations don't come into things at all. As the events of Slavery prove, just because the object of your desires is a member of an oppressive caste doesn't mean biology ceases to matter. I daresay sleeping with Donatra made more sense from a political perspective too;ill bet she'll be much less likely to turn on a Praetor who rocks her world in the sack.

The alternative was using the Viceroy to mind rape a 40 year old woman. The ruler of all of the Romulan Empire,a guy who has females of the caste which oppressed him for so long just THROWING themselves at him, cant get his rocks off unless hes mentally raping a 40 year old counselor.

I could stop right here, but ill mention the Argo. Starfleet has transporters. They literally do not need a wheeled vehicle for anything. They may as well have stuck a horse n Buggy in the back of the shuttle, for all the purposes the wheeled ARGO served.

If a Starfleet member needs to travel-combadge-> "TRANSPORTER ROOM, BEAM ME HERE--> *special effect*--> bam.

 

[Galileo7]

That changed when Paramount went with a JJ Abrams, a director that knew how to do big budget movies. Even those that didn't like STXI have to admit that movie looked awesome.

Before Abrams, nobody was ever given a big budget to begin with.

Robert Wise was.

That's, like, 9 films with low budget, each of them feeding upon the sets and props created for the first film.

Agree. Budget restrictions compared to other films.

 

[NrobbieC]

Shinzon had issues. He also distinctly told Donatra she was not a woman but merely a Romulan. I think he got off on the power more than Troi.

It was said quite clearly that they couldn't transport due to interference/ion storms, it also meant their tricorders were limited, a wheeled vehicle makes sense when you need to cover vast distances without technology

 

[Jeyl]

a wheeled vehicle makes sense when you need to cover cast distances without technology

Actually, why not just use the shuttlecraft? It flies, it can hover above ground, offers more protection and you can land right next to the parts. If there's a problem, you can control it with a remote control.

 

[NrobbieC]

a wheeled vehicle makes sense when you need to cover cast distances without technology

Actually, why not just use the shuttlecraft? It flies, it can hover above ground, offers more protection and you can land right next to the parts. If there's a problem, you can control it with a remote control.

Dunno, less chance of attracting attention from the pre-warp people?

 

[Jeyl]

a wheeled vehicle makes sense when you need to cover cast distances without technology

Actually, why not just use the shuttlecraft? It flies, it can hover above ground, offers more protection and you can land right next to the parts. If there's a problem, you can control it with a remote control.

Dunno, less chance of attracting attention from the pre-warp people?

And how did that work out? I seem to remember our characters driving all the way back to their shuttle all while Worf was SHOOTING the pre-warp people like they were evil nazis. If they had just used the shuttle the entire time, all they would have to do is ascend and leave.

But let's be honest. If they were so dead set on not attracting any attention, they shouldn't have gone during the day time.

 

[NrobbieC]

Actually, why not just use the shuttlecraft? It flies, it can hover above ground, offers more protection and you can land right next to the parts. If there's a problem, you can control it with a remote control.

Dunno, less chance of attracting attention from the pre-warp people?

And how did that work out? I seem to remember our characters driving all the way back to their shuttle all while Worf was SHOOTING the pre-warp people like they were evil nazis. If they had just used the shuttle the entire time, all they would have to do is ascend and leave.

But let's be honest. If they were so dead set on not attracting any attention, they shouldn't have gone during the day time.

They were more shooting at them as a method of distraction but yeah there's some Prime Directive breaking going on there, in fact no one even mentioned it.

 

[Pawleygirl]

I really didn't hate Nemesis. I just think it was poorly put together. Those missing scenes would have made the movie better for sure. What bothers me about the movie is that it almost seems like they were trying to hard to make everyone like the movie instead of appeasing the core fans. Insurrection was the worst and I didn't totally mind star trek generations except for that stewpid time thing that made zero sense.

 

[Maple Dog]

Nemesis is an ok movie if you're not familiar with ST,to me the thing that doesn't make me like it,is that they made it like some cheap clone of TWOK,with the bad guy wanting his vengeance against Picard and the federation,for something they had nothing to do with,when all of his hatred should have been directed at the romulans,and the part where Data upload his personality in B4 kind of cheapen his sacrifice.

As others have said Lore would have been the logical choice for B4,would have open the door to a what if story,who could have possibly stole or conspired with the enemy to give them the "body" of Lore.