Authors on the Boards
- Thread starter JD
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^And an amusing Family Guy skit.
That's pretty much how my system works.
I'd probably say that's pretty much the same as my system. I swear all the way up to fuck quite a bit, but I don't think I've ever said cunt once, unless I was quoting a movie or TV show where they said it. It's probably the worst for me, and it would take quite a bit for me to actually use it. If it means anything, I don't even seem to hear it very much even on shows like True Blood, and they throw fuck around all the time.
I find the word "bastard" to be objectionable when it's used in the literal sense of the word -- as a derogatory term for whose whose parents were not married when they were born.
When it's used in its metaphoric sense -- "You bastard!" meaning, "You are as objectionable to me as bastards once were in pre-modern Europe!" -- then it just registers to me as a middling swear word of relatively little import. But when it's being used to literally insult someone because of the circumstances of his/her birth, I get very angry; I view it as as equivalent to calling someone by a racial or sexual pejorative.
Hm. I would've thought that single or premarital parentage had become commonplace enough by now that the stigma on the literal use of the word "bastard" would've been largely erased, and that its only remaining use would be just as a generic slang term for "rotten human being." I mean, these days, if two people are dating, get pregnant, and then get married, it's no longer seen as avoiding a scandal; it's actually fairly routine, or so it seems. Same with the woman getting pregnant and raising the child on her own. All the shock and outrage about those practices is gone, as far as I know, so how can "bastard," used literally, carry any impact at all?
You bastard.
Seriously? The definition of bastard is "parents not married"?
Seriously? The definition of bastard is "parents not married"?
That's the literal, traditional meaning, yes. As in: "So-and-So is the bastard son of the Duke of the Buckingham, gotten by the milkmaid."
It referred to an illegitmate child conceived out of wedlock.
But that's not really how it's used anymore.
When I was 16, I worked backstage in local theatre. I remember the shock I felt when I attended the rehearsals for "Kiss Me, Kate" (musical adaptation of Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew)... one of the first lines was Lilli Vanessi yelling at Fred Graham, "You BASTARD!"
I was raised in a household that did not allow kids to swear. Ever. So when I heard the language in this play, one of my first thoughts was whether or not I should warn my grandparents (they raised me) before they came to see the play, or just let them find out for themselves.
Nowadays... I encounter the word "bastard" every time I pick up a historical novel about the Tudors or the Borgias. Back then it was simply a way of describing somebody's status within a family, and applied to either sex.
Yeah, I was thinking, some web forums have these silly filters installed that star out swear words - the last few pages would make a peculiar read with those.
Or even better, when it changes the word to something else. I had that problem on an RP site years ago. It filtered Spoon to S-thingie, which was amusing (someone eventually turned the filter off).
Going waaaaaay way back in the thread here for just a moment...: I really like having the authors on here. Being able to interact with them was one of the big attractions for my coming out of lurkdom. And they have a unique insight into the world of Trek production; probably the closest most of us will ever get to being able to peer inside the franchise. Well, I guess Bob Orci posting over at TrekMovie counts in some way; and the Okudas do post here some. Still, though, the interactions with the authors on the TrekLit board are certainly the most extended interactions we get.
And, I mean, think about how cool this is. 40 years ago, hell, 20 years ago, what were your odds of being able to have an extended conversation with authors (plural!) of some of your favorite books? Pretty slim, I'd say. The wonders of the Internet age...
Now returning to your current thread, already in progress... (heads-up: I spell out most of my swears, so if that bothers you, be forewarned.)
I use f-bombs in conversation with people, though not at work, not at church, and not with people above a certain age. The use of the f-word doesn't bother me in particular, though I sometimes wonder if it was really necessary for someone to use it. I think Christopher mentioned this earlier, but it seems to me that young people are rapidly using up all of our profanity, leaving eviscerated swear words in our wake. You gotta save some words for really strong moments, and I think we're losing such words.
In my books:
"Damn" and "hell" are basically fine, unless you're around pre-teen kids. I would feel fine using these around most older people, although if I knew someone was particularly conservative, I might switch into my "gosh, golly, goodness" mode.
"Crap" is not a swear, although I wouldn't use it around my grandmother. "Sucks," for idiosyncratic reasons, is a swear, but a very mild one; though it is not strong, it is kinda crass, and I'd use it liberally in some circles and not at all in others. "Ass" is like "sucks," but a fair bit stronger; again, it's kinda crass, which can be fine quite a bit of the time.
"Shit" is a swear. I think it's more acceptable to use it as a curse, as in, *drop hammer on foot* "Shit!", than as in, "This truck is a piece of shit." On the other hand, I will sometimes use it in the second sense to remind people I'm with that we're not all from high society.
"Bastard" doesn't bother me. I almost think I would be okay using it with my kids when I eventually have them. You know, starting around age 8. Obviously, standards will be different then, but that describes what I think is appropriate now.
"Bitch" is a strong word, and I would be angry if it were used to describe someone I care about. I rarely have cause to use it myself, but I would not be uncomfortable doing so.
"Dick" is a bit like a male equivalent for "bitch," in my books, but (not surprisingly) not as strong. "Douche(bag)" may be a better equivalent; I feel a lot less comfortable using it.
I hate the c-word, both when used to refer to female genitalia and when used to refer to a person. Again, this is idiosyncratic, but I find it very vulgar; any occasion I might have to use it, I would stop myself and say "bitch" or "asshole" instead. The c-word just seems too misogynistic to me, based on my experience with it. (Not saying that everyone who uses it hates women!! Just that it has too many associations for me.) Not a big fan of "pussy" either, tbh.
In terms of swears in TrekLit, I'm basically good with where stuff is now. (Where it's okay to say "damn, hell, shit, ass(hole), bitch and bastard".) The one thing for me, though, is I would find certain situations more believable if an f-bomb was dropped occasionally. Leybenzon, I'm looking at you: I really find it hard to believe that the folks on the frontlines during the War(s) would not use an occasional "fuck".
It's really interesting, though, to see how non-universal profanity is. I remember my dad telling me about his father, who was born at the beginning of the twentieth century and who lived his entire life in the middle of nowhere Oklahoma. Worked shit jobs his whole life because he was blackballed for organizing during the 20's and 30's. Cottonseed oil mills and the like. Built the family home with his own two hands, too. My dad's family was poor as dirt and they knew it. But my grandfather never cussed. Might've said "crap" once in a while. But that was it. The man had a thousand reasons to swear but never did.
Times change.
And, I mean, think about how cool this is. 40 years ago, hell, 20 years ago, what were your odds of being able to have an extended conversation with authors (plural!) of some of your favorite books? Pretty slim, I'd say. The wonders of the Internet age...
Now returning to your current thread, already in progress... (heads-up: I spell out most of my swears, so if that bothers you, be forewarned.)
I use f-bombs in conversation with people, though not at work, not at church, and not with people above a certain age. The use of the f-word doesn't bother me in particular, though I sometimes wonder if it was really necessary for someone to use it. I think Christopher mentioned this earlier, but it seems to me that young people are rapidly using up all of our profanity, leaving eviscerated swear words in our wake. You gotta save some words for really strong moments, and I think we're losing such words.
In my books:
"Damn" and "hell" are basically fine, unless you're around pre-teen kids. I would feel fine using these around most older people, although if I knew someone was particularly conservative, I might switch into my "gosh, golly, goodness" mode.
"Crap" is not a swear, although I wouldn't use it around my grandmother. "Sucks," for idiosyncratic reasons, is a swear, but a very mild one; though it is not strong, it is kinda crass, and I'd use it liberally in some circles and not at all in others. "Ass" is like "sucks," but a fair bit stronger; again, it's kinda crass, which can be fine quite a bit of the time.
"Shit" is a swear. I think it's more acceptable to use it as a curse, as in, *drop hammer on foot* "Shit!", than as in, "This truck is a piece of shit." On the other hand, I will sometimes use it in the second sense to remind people I'm with that we're not all from high society.
"Bastard" doesn't bother me. I almost think I would be okay using it with my kids when I eventually have them. You know, starting around age 8. Obviously, standards will be different then, but that describes what I think is appropriate now.
"Bitch" is a strong word, and I would be angry if it were used to describe someone I care about. I rarely have cause to use it myself, but I would not be uncomfortable doing so.
"Dick" is a bit like a male equivalent for "bitch," in my books, but (not surprisingly) not as strong. "Douche(bag)" may be a better equivalent; I feel a lot less comfortable using it.
I hate the c-word, both when used to refer to female genitalia and when used to refer to a person. Again, this is idiosyncratic, but I find it very vulgar; any occasion I might have to use it, I would stop myself and say "bitch" or "asshole" instead. The c-word just seems too misogynistic to me, based on my experience with it. (Not saying that everyone who uses it hates women!! Just that it has too many associations for me.) Not a big fan of "pussy" either, tbh.
In terms of swears in TrekLit, I'm basically good with where stuff is now. (Where it's okay to say "damn, hell, shit, ass(hole), bitch and bastard".) The one thing for me, though, is I would find certain situations more believable if an f-bomb was dropped occasionally. Leybenzon, I'm looking at you: I really find it hard to believe that the folks on the frontlines during the War(s) would not use an occasional "fuck".
It's really interesting, though, to see how non-universal profanity is. I remember my dad telling me about his father, who was born at the beginning of the twentieth century and who lived his entire life in the middle of nowhere Oklahoma. Worked shit jobs his whole life because he was blackballed for organizing during the 20's and 30's. Cottonseed oil mills and the like. Built the family home with his own two hands, too. My dad's family was poor as dirt and they knew it. But my grandfather never cussed. Might've said "crap" once in a while. But that was it. The man had a thousand reasons to swear but never did.
Times change.
I've always been careful on Facebook with my language since I've had minors friended.
In about a year my last minor FB friend will come of age.
All fuck will then break loose.
In about a year my last minor FB friend will come of age.
All fuck will then break loose.
It's the other way for me - I never swear on facebook but my nieces (both 16) swear like they have just come out of the merchant navy.
Same here, however I do take pleasure in pointing out to my nieces that their mother is also on fb.
Understandable; there are some misogynistic attitudes underlying the words' traditional use. But the thing is, profanities have a way of becoming divorced from their literal/original meaning over time. Very few people today would hear "punk" and think of a prostitute or hear "golly" and think of a blasphemous reference to an embodied God. The British slang term "sod" is short for "Sodomite," but I doubt the people who use it as a mild, even somewhat affectionate label ("the poor sod") have any intention of conveying such a meaning. I think that in some cultures the c-word is becoming similarly divorced from its origins, and sooner or later you just have to accept that the people using it have no intention of invoking its original derogatory meaning. But the culture is still in transition when it comes to that particular word, so it's a tricky one.
And I can sympathize with the difficulty in letting go of one's offense at the original meaning. Personally I can't stand it when people use "balls" as a synonym for courage or strength, because I find it deeply sexist. For all I know, maybe they aren't thinking in terms of its original meaning at all, but it's hard for me to forget it.
Funny you should say that, because I just watched this:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loUvFlh54I0[/yt]
Most of the time, that is the case. But the thing is, I am the son of unmarried parents -- so when I see people using the term in its literal sense, they're usually doing so to judge and condemn me or people like me as not being legitimate human beings. I find the idea that I don't have a legitimate existence because of their patriarchal ideology deeply offensive.
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