Did that acutally have a self destruct? I thought Picard simply overloaded its systems resulting in a self destruct, not that there was an actual self destruct mechanism.
Trek cliches
- Thread starter RB_Kandy
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Did that acutally have a self destruct? I thought Picard simply overloaded its systems resulting in a self destruct, not that there was an actual self destruct mechanism.
No, that wouldn't actually happen at all, since the air would dissipate into the vacuum almost instantly with no time for any combustion to occur. Not to mention that the roiling, cloudy effect of a fireball explosion happens because the flames are mixing with air, so even if it did happen, it would look entirely different if they were expanding into vacuum, more just a smooth expanding bubble.
"Fireball" explosions in space scenes -- or really in most scenes in film and TV, period -- are a filmmaking conceit that has little to do with what most types of explosion would realistically look like. As a rule, the more powerful the explosion, the less flame you get and the faster it's over, because the reactants are either quickly consumed or quickly blown apart. Special-effects artists prefer liquid-fuel fireballs because they're low-energy eruptions, which means not only do they pose little danger, but they have more bright flame which looks cool on camera. Most of the kinds of explosion they're used to represent, whether grenades, C4, building demolitions, natural-gas explosions, or whatever, look a lot less fiery. (As any loyal viewer of Mythbusters should know.)
Of course, an antimatter explosion like a starship warp core breach is far more powerful and would be over in a split-second. There'd just be an extremely brief, blinding flash and then the ship would be completely gone, replaced by a diffuse, swiftly expanding bubble or spherical cloud of gases (and maybe some debris, if the reactants flew apart quickly enough to stop reacting before the ship was entirely consumed).
Ugh, ludicrously poor information security.
(Although not a Trek-specific cliche, in this case.
)
Well, I wouldn't fault the Enterprise's computer security in the TMP case. I mean, think about it -- V'Ger was just one step away from evolving to a higher level of existence. There probably isn't a technology in the physical universe more advanced than what V'Ger had. So even the greatest security software in existence wouldn't be equal to the task of blocking V'Ger's probe.
As for the Nero-Pike case, my understanding is that in real life, one of the main ways that hackers gain access to computer systems is by tricking people into handing over the passwords. The main weak points in any security system are the authorized users who have to know how to get past it.
As for the Nero-Pike case, my understanding is that in real life, one of the main ways that hackers gain access to computer systems is by tricking people into handing over the passwords. The main weak points in any security system are the authorized users who have to know how to get past it.
My concern is not so much how they were stolen, but why they were where they were stolen from.
It's bad enough that starships apparently have codes that shut down the shields of all the other starships, but now (apparently) they have the codes to disable the defences of all the core worlds (I mean, if the ship has them for Earth, may as well throw Vulcan and the lot into the mix.) I wonder what operational requirement this was meant to fulfil, and who thought the benefits outweighed the risks.
As for Pike, why does he have the codes? Is he part of the high command element of Earth's planetary defence?
EDIT: A more "reasonable" explanation is that the codes weren’t stolen directly (stole the ship's or Pike's credentials to internal.starfleet.gov.ufp and went from there), but that still stinks of poor information security.
It's bad enough that starships apparently have codes that shut down the shields of all the other starships, but now (apparently) they have the codes to disable the defences of all the core worlds (I mean, if the ship has them for Earth, may as well throw Vulcan and the lot into the mix.) I wonder what operational requirement this was meant to fulfil, and who thought the benefits outweighed the risks.
As for Pike, why does he have the codes? Is he part of the high command element of Earth's planetary defence?
EDIT: A more "reasonable" explanation is that the codes weren’t stolen directly (stole the ship's or Pike's credentials to internal.starfleet.gov.ufp and went from there), but that still stinks of poor information security.
^Again, I think you have to consider that in both cases, the being violating the security had access to technology far ahead of the state of the art. V'Ger had nigh-godlike advancement, and Nero had a ship that came from 129 years in the future of an alternate timeline (and, if you believe the comic-book prequel, was augmented with Borg technology). So in neither case was it anything like a fair fight. So maybe you're being a little too harsh on their computer security.
You're mixing up two lines from that movie.
Or Dr. McCoy being nicknamed "Bones." Well, he was called by that name -- but only by Captain Kirk. In the original series, no one else called McCoy "Bones."
Spock called him "Bones" once in "The Tholian Web," but in the context of referring to what Kirk would say in the situation.
And I have the impression that Scotty called him "Bones" once, but I can't remember where.
And I have the impression that Scotty called him "Bones" once, but I can't remember where.
The technology is incidental, because the root cause of the breach was cultural. That's what information security is mostly about: culture.
The breach as you described it exploited poor security culture, in particular the poor assessment of risk and appropriate dissemination of sensitive information.
That's the issue, not that the attacker could have found some other way to overbear the defences using their superior technology.
Given the harsh implications of said poor information security, arising from underlying poor security culture, I don't think this is a harsh assessment at all.
Since we don't actually know the specifics of the security methods employed and can't comprehend the technologies that were used to breach them, I think it's just arrogant to assume we're qualified to judge. Sometimes it is more honest to say "I have no opinion" than to say "I know this is wrong."
Oops. You're right. Clearly, I need to see the movie again.
The Vulcan Defense Minister hid the codes to his planet's defenses under his keyboard.
Away teams beaming down first and THEN using their tricorders to scan the atmosphere. A pet peeve for sure, not sure about the cliché part.
Ian Keldon
Fleet Captain
HAH! Tell that to all the ships sunk by carrier aircraft in WW II, not to mention torpedo boats, submarines, etc.
My understanding regarding exploding consoles is that in Trek, the majority of the ship's system runs on plasma from the warp core (obtained via taps), including said consoles.
As stated by some others, even if you had inline safety valves/shunts, you're still talking about superheated ionized gas running throughout the ship, which makes for a fairly volatile situation.
I once wondered why they simply didn't just convert the plasma into electricity to run all the LCARS panels - the conversion at the warp core end is probably inefficient for long-distance poewr transmission, so they simply pipe it all the way to the console and convert it there instead.
As stated by some others, even if you had inline safety valves/shunts, you're still talking about superheated ionized gas running throughout the ship, which makes for a fairly volatile situation.
I once wondered why they simply didn't just convert the plasma into electricity to run all the LCARS panels - the conversion at the warp core end is probably inefficient for long-distance poewr transmission, so they simply pipe it all the way to the console and convert it there instead.
When and where was this ever said in an episode or film?
The consoles are gonna explode no matter what they run on, because they're powered by visual drama/excitement and sfx.
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned: Time Travel
Seriously, with so many temporal loops, time wormholes, time spacial anomolies and whatever the heck else, it's literally easier to travel back and forth in time than it is to warp from point A to point B.
Voyager certainly proved this concept. It became so cliche in their case, that they invented a whole time police just to fix Janeway's time blunders. Enterprise was so bad about this it was a major plot arc. TNG and TOS certainly weren't blameless with this cliche. DS9 was really the only series that didn't have multiple time travel episodes a season. Even they cashed in on this a few times too though.
I get that hey it's science fiction and it's neat, but can we not milk the creative juices just a bit and come up with something else for a problem of the week?
Seriously, with so many temporal loops, time wormholes, time spacial anomolies and whatever the heck else, it's literally easier to travel back and forth in time than it is to warp from point A to point B.
Voyager certainly proved this concept. It became so cliche in their case, that they invented a whole time police just to fix Janeway's time blunders. Enterprise was so bad about this it was a major plot arc. TNG and TOS certainly weren't blameless with this cliche. DS9 was really the only series that didn't have multiple time travel episodes a season. Even they cashed in on this a few times too though.
I get that hey it's science fiction and it's neat, but can we not milk the creative juices just a bit and come up with something else for a problem of the week?
It wasn't spelled out explicitly, but it was part of the underlying assumptions of the show's creators. You've surely heard many references in various Trek episodes to EPS conduits, EPS relays, EPS feeds, and the like. EPS stands for electro-plasma system, a phrase that was also used a few times onscreen (or alluded to indirectly, like "shunt all the plasma to the emitters" in "The Nth Degree"). The Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual discusses the EPS in its chapters on warp drive, impulse drive, and utilities (i.e. Ch. 5-7).
