Spoilers TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread

[Ronald Held]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

about 20% into it. A large amount of destruction.I would comment further but cannot enable the spoiler button.

 

[Sjaddix]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

My review:

Now that I’ve finished RBoE, Plagues of Night, and Raise the Dawn, I feel very satisfied with the overall journey with RtD being very difficult to put down. It was very non-traditional and larger than life with so many characters, events, and settings that strung together a fairly epic chain which, in the end, has either resurrected DS9 in Trek lit or killed it.

Now that Sisko’s family situation has been resolved, I feel much better about his overall journey even though I still don’t believe his abandoning his family makes any sense.

Usually I don’t care much for the political strings in Trek stories but I actually looked forward to chapters involving the Romulan Praetor as she has been a very engaging character. She will make the Typhon Pact very interesting as she alone among the Pact leadership seems to understand the UFP and not want to make war with them. It should proof interesting as the other states act belligerent while the Romulans are the level-headed ones. That said, I’m left wondering how the Tzentheki feel about her as she has essentially thwarted their plans twice and they are the ones who brought her to power.

I have mixed feelings about the ending for the crew and station. I just found it a bit much to have O’Brien, Nog, and Odo all return to DS9. I love the characters and am glad to see them back, but I just don’t feel like they belong there. I was very pleased when O'Brien appeared; O”Brien and Nog I can understand wanting to build a new station but wonce that’s over, it will be like they are regressing rather than progressing in their career. Odo says Starfleet is unlikely to send a Slipstream vessel to return him to the Dominion. I think Starfleet could see value in taking the time to return a stranded head of state home, especially when he is a stabilizing force for the Dominion. With him gone, Laas could make them a dangerous force if/when the wormhole reopens.

And that is my biggest gripe, the wormhole being collapsed. Without it, DS9 seems pointless. No Gamma Quadrant, the Cardassians are an ally now. What’s going to be interesting about a space station in the ass end of space now?

So although I enjoyed DRG III’s overall DS9 story, found this book fairly outstanding, and will eagerly pick up his next book because he is a fine writer who weaves a great story, I’m left worried that he left DS9 in a worse state than he found it.

Yeah DS9 and Bajor are kinda irrelevant now without the wormhole. Although naturally, the wormhole will reopen eventually. Such is the state of serial lit. Although in some way you can say this closes a major chapter for DS9. Show starts with the wormhole opening and this book has it closes. Although, I wonder how the Bajorans will react to this.

 

[starri]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Yeah DS9 and Bajor are kinda irrelevant now without the wormhole.

Not necessarily. DS9 was the staging ground for the relief efforts to Cardassia after the war, and now that the Cardassians are more closely allied with the Federation, it will probably become an important waypoint between the two.

And that pre-supposes that an admiral or two won't take up the idea of the Federation reopening the wormhole itself, which, you have to admit, is something an admiral might do.

 

[Sjaddix]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Yeah Sorry really not all that interested in Cardassia Relief Besides that Hardly Compares to being the Gateway to a whole quadrant.

 

[Paper Moon]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

WOW. That. Was. Great.

Honestly, PoN and RtD together are better than Destiny to me. I don't say that to minimize Destiny's excellence, but to emphasize this duology's.

Spoilers abounding ahead...

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Comments on things I liked:
-That pagh'tem'far between Kasidy, Sisko and Kira at the end was probably the most confusing thing I have ever read in TrekLit. And it was great. I liked the resolution of the Sisko and Prophets storyline. It's about time, in my view. Oddly enough, the way Kira explained that it was okay for Sisko to be with Kasidy reminded me of the similar revelation about a prophecy in the Harry Potter series.
-Loved the resolution of Kira's story. While I would be okay if she came back, I appreciate the resolution of the conflict that was her life, and I'd be okay if it were over. She deserves to be at peace.
-Loved, loved, LOVED the parallelism between Eli rescuing Kay and Elias (?) rescuing Kira. I would like some explanation about Vaughn, but honestly, if I don't get it, that will be okay too. Some things aren't to be explained.
-Really am okay with DS9's demise. Obviously the authors were telegraphing this, but it did feel like there were no more stories to tell there. For one thing, the character of Quark had no way to grow as long as the station was there. I believe it was Ira Steven Behr who said that Quark was never going to be nagus, or anything, because he was always going to be at his bar.
-Was glad to see less of the Breen (really glad) and was fine with less Tzenkethi. They're great, but we've seen a lot of them. Was glad to have focus on interesting Romulans.
-Picard with Tomalak
-Nog and O'Brien being back and working together
-no Ezri
-no one missing Ezri
-Odo being back

Agreeing with what other people have said about:
-Sela; I cheered out loud when I realized who was the prisoner in Ki Baratan
-Kamemor
-Quark
-being sadder about the prospect of losing Vic than about having lost the station
-Bacco being stupid
-Sisko reeming out Stinson

Things I was less keen on:
-Where is Spock? (someone else mentioned this upthread) Not even a mention? I didn't miss him while reading the book, but in hindsight, I would have appreciated something.
-The Sarina Douglas subplot; to turn Bashir's "wheels-within-wheels" image on its ear, this story felt like it was spinning its wheels. Of course DRGIII needed to include it, but it just felt like there wasn't enough space in the narrative to make it go places. And while the confusingness of the story was clearly intentional and meaningful, it just didn't quite work for me. And it's somewhat frustrating because I don't think we'll get development on that story for some time.
-Using the True Way. I know that their continued existence beyond the Dominion War was not DRGIII's call, and I agree that if they survived that war, they would certainly survive at least until 2383, and behave very much as depicted. All that aside, though, I still don't find them particularly interesting, nor particularly believable.

I'm not sure what to think of the wormhole collapsing. Though it's rich with story potentials, I am saddened by the stories we won't get, at least, not for a while, mainly relating to the Dominion and GQ exploration. On the other hand, it will be nice to be able to focus on the Alpha and Beta Quadrants for a while. And Odo is certainly placed into an interesting position now. Wonder what he will do.

All in all, this was a fantastic book. I want there to be more DS9 stories and sooner than we will surely get them. And honestly, at this point, I personally don't need/want those story slots to be taken up with Ascendant-only stories. What is ahead seems yet more exciting than what we have left behind.

 

[shanejayell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Finished. DAMN good book, very very good.

*madly claps*

One thing that's annoying me in reader responces is "Bacco being stupid" comments. Do keep in mind that as readers we have MUCH more information than she does. She's making the best calls she can make, and with the information she has they're good calls.

WE know Kamemor is good hearted, but Bacco DOESN'T. All she knows is she negotiated with her in good faith and got screwed. So I don't have any problems with how she was portrayed.

My opinion, anyway.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Is the new station still called Deep Space Nine, or does it have a new name?

 

[Paper Moon]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Is the new station still called Deep Space Nine, or does it have a new name?

According to the last line of the book,

Spoiler: the last line of the book

it is indeed still called "Deep Space Nine." This despite the station on the cover art being labeled "173".

Finished. DAMN good book, very very good.

*madly claps*

One thing that's annoying me in reader responces is "Bacco being stupid" comments. Do keep in mind that as readers we have MUCH more information than she does. She's making the best calls she can make, and with the information she has they're good calls.

WE know Kamemor is good hearted, but Bacco DOESN'T. All she knows is she negotiated with her in good faith and got screwed. So I don't have any problems with how she was portrayed.

My opinion, anyway.

I should clarify that I didn't actually think Bacco was being stupid, per se, but was rather using "Bacco being stupid" as a shorthand to stand in for what other people had said here about her behavior. I do think she let her anger get the better of her just a little bit. But just a little bit. Her behavior was entirely understandable and believable, and generally to her credit as a president.

It was interesting seeing her depicted like this, though. Until now, Bacco has never really had the wool pulled completely over her eyes from what is actually going on. So it was interesting to see her make a (potentially very costly) mistake.

I do wish we could have seen her reconciliation with Kamemor, though.

 

[shanejayell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

*squints as cover pic*

Could be Section 173, or Bay !73 or anything else. Doesn't seem to indicate the station name, to me anyway.

 

[Paper Moon]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

*squints as cover pic*

Could be Section 173, or Bay !73 or anything else. Doesn't seem to indicate the station name, to me anyway.

Excellent point. Thanks.

 

[DEWLine]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Looks like Doug Drexler showed us not the new station, but perhaps the construction office overseeing the building of the new station. Am I wrong?

 

[DS9forever]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I know in the past there has been little or no discussion between Pocket Books authors and the artist, so this might be similar.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

still at it. ~1/3 through and no clear resolution where this is heading.

 

[Clem1029]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

After reading this a second time, there's a lot to say about this book. Let's start off with the biggest question I have at this point:

Spoiler: WYLB Part 2?

Am I the only one that read this as possibly the 2nd DS9 finale? Sure, we can all think of a ton of stories that can branch from here, but with all of the changes to the original characters (not to mention the station), RtD could easily function as an outstanding series finale. Not sure I 100% believe that, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that thought crossed my mind more than a few times.

Spoiler: Kira and the gap

I'm pretty sure the vision at the end indicates clearly that Kira isn't dead. That said, her ending up with the Prophets makes for an intriguing framing device, doesn't it? The first thing I thought of there was the timelessness of the Temple makes for a great way to revisit the stories of the 5 year gap. And yes, I'm one of those people that would love to get those stories too.

 

[Mage]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Looks like Doug Drexler showed us not the new station, but perhaps the construction office overseeing the building of the new station. Am I wrong?

Well, the description of the station at the end of the novels is completely different then what we see on the cover. I'm just guessing they didn't have time/resources to completely design a new station. And I'm glad of it. The station at the cover is just a standard administration station. The new DS9 should be something unique.

In any case, I voted outstanding for not just this, but the duology as a whole.
To me, things were left in a good enough place that, if DS9 and its crew were to never again be featured in Treklit whatsoever, I'm fine with that (even though I will always be a Niner at heart), but would definatly not mind more of it.

I'll be a bit vague from now on, so as not to spoil to much, but there will be some spoilers ahead, so be warned!!

SPOILERS DOWN HERE!!!!

Spoiler: Here be spoilers!!!

The conclusion of Sisko's arc was satisfying. I really enjoyed reading his storyline over the last few novels, making it a very emotional journey. The ultimate ending of it all was something I'm very happy with.
Kira.... wow.... I was so sad at first, and cried out loud. But it's ok, when you think about it. After all that she's been through her entire life, this makes sense. But I can also see why some people might be dissapointed. But who knows what the future holds. The Emissary came back, so perhaps....
Odo.... Not sure what to think. I find that, perhaps, of all the original DS9 characters, he changed the most. Some of it made sense to me, some of it didn't. But it's been 5 or 6 years since we last some him, and people can change so much in so many years.
O'Brien, Nog, Bashir, Sarina... I was very happy to see both O'Brien and Nog returning, but both of them being back did feel kinda forced. The entire Bashir/Sarina/L'Haan thing, with Ro knowing about Sarina all the time... Bit forced as well.
I loved how the entire Romulan situation was resolved. I was so worried for the entire novel that yet again a praetor would be killed off, especially since this one was sort of put into place thanks to the Tzenkethi to make the Romulans a weaker partner in the TP. But I'm really liking Kamemor, and feel that the Empire finally has a change under her rule. And with Tomalak and Sela finally out of the way, perhaps things can finally look up for the Romulan people. That last scene between Kamemor and Sela was spot on, showing in what a fantasy world people like Tomalak and Sela are living, thinking that their struggle for power is actually benefitial for the Empire.
Vaugh.... I cried. A lot. For a little moment I really thought he would be back... and he was, sort of. But yeah, I cried. He was/is one of my favorite Treklit characters. Luckily, there are plenty of stories of his past that can still be told, so who knows.

So yeah, I finished this book in two days. Couldn't put it down. To me, it proved again that DRGIII is not only one of the better Treklit authors, who also has a grasp of the DS9 characters. Here's hoping he'll have another change to write them.

 

[Mage]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Dammit, after posted my post, I read what others had to say. And I couldn't agree more!! It's so good to see so many people so enthousiastic about this one!

Loved it, loved it, loved it!!! I almost want to go and read it again!

 

[Snaploud]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I assume Spock had nothing to add to the drama because his last interactions with Romulus involved sending a message to Bacco. He decided that the reunification movement would be better off without him. It would be nice to know what new venture he's pursuing, but that's probably better decided in another book.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I was really waiting for

Spoiler: possible story idea?

Spock to be announced as the new permanent ambassador to the Typhon Pact

 

[Snaploud]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I was really waiting for

Spoiler: possible story idea?

Spock to be announced as the new permanent ambassador to the Typhon Pact

Response:

Spoiler: Response

I don't think that would be wise on Spock's part. He would naturally be siding with the Federation on all issues, and opponents to Reunification could use that against the movement.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I also like it that even though there were chances in here to start a new war that it didn't happen...

Yeah, I wonder what those readers who assume the Typhon Pact storyline is inevitably leading to war will make of this. This was the Cuban Missile Crisis for the UFP and the Pact, bringing them to the very brink of war, yet both sides avoided stepping over that brink and worked together to resolve things peacefully. Although I'm sure those readers will stubbornly insist that Kamemor is an aberration and is sure to be assassinated soon, etc. etc. Never mind that she's successfully purged the Romulan government of those working against her peacemaking agenda and has transcended the Tzenkethi's intended role for her as a weak, easily manipulated leader.

If the novels follow what happened in the Countdown comics (which they could ignore some of it) I think there is a different Praetor by 2387 which isn't far off now.

As someone else mentioned, the novels are under no obligation to acknowledge anything from Countdown (except those elements that were actually in the 2009 film). I just hope that Kamemor is offworld when the supernova wavefront hits. Given that they did have some advance warning, they probably had time to evacuate the government -- though Kamemor's just the type who'd go down with her ship rather than take a seat on the lifeboat that could be used to save someone else.

What I don't get is why O'Brien is still just a Chief. You would think that after all the casualties and the need for experienced officers they would have promoted him.

He's already a senior chief petty officer -- there's only one higher enlisted rating, master chief petty officer. So by enlisted standards, he's already very near the top. To become an officer, he'd have to go to Starfleet Academy for several years, and that would be a waste of his valuable time. There's no need for everyone to be an officer, since enlisted personnel serve a vital role as well. A master chief is nominally subordinate to any commissioned officer, but in practice has the experience and authority to be considered a senior officer. And O'Brien has always been treated as a senior officer in DS9's crew even as an SCPO.

Granted, "Master Chief O'Brien" would have a nice ring to it...

Another thing I don't Understand is why this book and Plagues of Night labeled TNG.

Uhh, they're not. They're labeled Star Trek: Typhon Pact.

Why wasn't the Federation willing to return Odo to the Dominion?

Because the writer or editor wanted Odo to be a regular part of the cast again.

Yeah DS9 and Bajor are kinda irrelevant now without the wormhole.

Not necessarily. DS9 was the staging ground for the relief efforts to Cardassia after the war, and now that the Cardassians are more closely allied with the Federation, it will probably become an important waypoint between the two.

Not to mention that Bajor has become an important Federation world in its own right. Remember, Sisko's mission from the start, even before the wormhole was discovered, was to facilitate Bajor's recovery and entry into the Federation, because of all the Bajoran people had to offer the UFP as members. The quadrant may have come to Bajor for the wormhole, but they'll stay for everything else that Bajor has come to represent and everything its civilization has to offer.

Also, Bajor is one of the closest Federation worlds to Tzenkethi and Breen space, good for keeping an eye on the more hostile elements of the Pact, and centrally located to facilitate trade among the Khitomer Accords partners, particularly the Cardassians and Ferengi.

Anyway, I doubt the wormhole is permanently gone. After all, its inhabitants don't exist in linear time. Their existence is a constant throughout all time, so they certainly can't be destroyed. True, the terminus points of the wormhole exist in linear spacetime and can be altered, but the interior realm and its inhabitants will always be there, and I expect they can recreate the termini at will, even if it takes a while as we perceive it.