Was Riker a jerk to Shelby?

[C.E. Evans]

We've seen times in which Starfleet personnel can turn down assignments and promotions. Repeatedly turning down assignments can lead to fewer and fewer opportunities for advancement, but I don't recall anyone being cashiered out of Starfleet for doing so.

Even in an emergency situation in which a person may be promoted out of necessity to fill an important vacancy, whether that promotion is permanant or temporary after the emergency has passed may be dependent on the individual.

I don't think Starfleet wants someone in a position they really don't want to be in. There may be no shortage of equally qualified people in line to take it otherwise, IMO.

 

[R. Star]

Riker's a jerk. This has been proven time and again in the series. Sure they try to force him by as likable and a womanizer, but when he's out of his comfort zone or trying to enforce his authority he gets downright mean at times. This situation with Shelby is no exception.

That doesn't excuse Shelby by any means. She walked on board as if she owned the place, flat out told Riker she was gunning for his job, disregarded policy and the chain of command. When confronted on this she just cited her selfish reasoning that Riker was in his way. She was more focused on advancing her career than on the inpending genocide of Earth's people. Even after Picard was assimilated she didn't care and just acted like she was entitled to be first officer still.

Conclusion: They're both jerks. If they weren't going at each other so blatantly, they probably would have ended up together.

 

[MacLeod]

Well having just Saved Earth and possibly the entire Federation, Starfleet might have rewarded Riker with any post he wanted.

Perhaps both Riker and Shelby could have handled their differences more professionally. But I think the fault lay slightly more at Shelby's door.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Come to think of it, a lot of the crew seem to be jerks to others in one way or another.

Particularly with outsiders. Laforge was a jerk towards Scotty for a moment. He could "barely stand" to be around Reg Barcley, who was the shy, nervous type.

Wesley had a "few eww" reactions to some miners or aliens who happen to come aboard the ship.

The entire crew looked like they hated Commander Remmick-even after the investigation was over and he said it was a fine crew and wanted to serve with them, they were like "whatever".

I'm not talking major disagreement things, I mean "I just met you and already you annoy me, nose in the air moments".

 

[doubleohfive]

Well let's keep in mind what the mission statement of the show was; "our people" (i.e. the regulars) never fought or had personal problems with each other. Rather, it was always some external situation (Worf is paralyzed, Data builds a daughter, Riker loves Soren) or new person brought in to the mix (Shelby, or whatever guest star of the week) who would incite the conflict of the story. We're supposed to root for Riker because he's one of the Big Damn Heroes of the show; his reaction to Shelby is perfectly understandable given his situation and her own personal behavior.

I'm not seeing how he was at all unprofessional about anything. When the chips were down, he put aside his dislike for her and promoted her and even after the entire crisis they seemed to have found common ground. If anything, Shelby was the one who started the conflict between them. She may have caught Riker off guard with it, but she definitely struck first.

 

[doubleohfive]

Wesley had a "few eww" reactions to some miners or aliens who happen to come aboard the ship.

Worf could be a real asshole sometimes. Rewatch the series again and look for those moments when he's a total dick. It's hilarious.

The entire crew looked like they hated Commander Remmick-even after the investigation was over and he said it was a fine crew and wanted to serve with them, they were like "whatever".

Remmick was an asshole. The crew knew there was some sort of top secret investigation going on and he put them all on edge, leading everyone to believe they were all possibly suspected of something via his invasive questioning. I don't know that I'd say they hated Remmick, but they sure as shit didn't like him. And I can't say I blame them for that.

 

[Mojochi]

Ordinarily, (Especially in the case of Jellico) I'm the first to harp on Riker being rather arrogant, stubborn, short sighted, & down right defiant with just about anybody but Picard, not to mention the lame stagnation of his career goals, BUT, in the case of Shelby, she had it coming

If you're ballsy enough to step aboard & tell the person you will be answering to on your mission that he needs to gtfo of your way, then you should be prepared to be pissed on, & not be so juvenile as to run to the captain or the admiral who's ass you've been kissing, in order to get your way. You opened your mouth. Put your big girl pants on & take your lumps. My favorite moment is when Geordi tells Data about her erring. He knows the score, & knows she's pushing it

I wonder what it says about Riker that he was so standoffish with Ro, and only to go to bed with her after they'd both had their memories wiped?

I think it was supposed to be a statement about both of them having prejudged one another & allowed it to form their opinion of one another & let that opinion be a major factor in their working relationship

Riker had always seen Ro as someone who didn't have the necessary principles to be in Starfleet & follow their rules (In a way he ends up being right too). Ro had always taken to Riker as a bossy, dogmatic, close-minded authoritative figure, which wasn't without its merit either, really.

Basically the point was that both of them, for reasons that weren't necessarily unwarranted had developed a certain amount of animosity toward one another due to prejudice, & bad 1st impressions. Once they had their memories wiped, all that no longer existed, & they were given a chance to develop an open minded relationship, where for the 1st time, they actually communicated with one another considerately, which changed how they related to each other drastically, such that they actually found one another's other personality traits attractive

In a weird way, Conundrum was a very good episode for character dynamics, even if some of the plot points were a bit lame. The Worf/Picard leadership interactions were equally as interesting as Riker/Ro. If only there had been time for Picard & Crusher to perhaps notice their own underlying relationship potential, unfettered by long standing inhibitions

 

[CommanderRiker]

SHE was the jerk IMHO...going "oh...and I´ll take your job".

Agreed..... I think he was just firm and by the book.

 

[R. Star]

Ordinarily, (Especially in the case of Jellico) I'm the first to harp on Riker being rather arrogant, stubborn, short sighted, & down right defiant with just about anybody but Picard, not to mention the lame stagnation of his career goals, BUT, in the case of Shelby, she had it coming

If you're ballsy enough to step aboard & tell the person you will be answering to on your mission that he needs to gtfo of your way, then you should be prepared to be pissed on, & not be so juvenile as to run to the captain or the admiral who's ass you've been kissing, in order to get your way. You opened your mouth. Put your big girl pants on & take your lumps. My favorite moment is when Geordi tells Data about her erring. He knows the score, & knows she's pushing it

I wonder what it says about Riker that he was so standoffish with Ro, and only to go to bed with her after they'd both had their memories wiped?

I think it was supposed to be a statement about both of them having prejudged one another & allowed it to form their opinion of one another & let that opinion be a major factor in their working relationship

Riker had always seen Ro as someone who didn't have the necessary principles to be in Starfleet & follow their rules (In a way he ends up being right too). Ro had always taken to Riker as a bossy, dogmatic, close-minded authoritative figure, which wasn't without its merit either, really.

Basically the point was that both of them, for reasons that weren't necessarily unwarranted had developed a certain amount of animosity toward one another due to prejudice, & bad 1st impressions. Once they had their memories wiped, all that no longer existed, & they were given a chance to develop an open minded relationship, where for the 1st time, they actually communicated with one another considerately, which changed how they related to each other drastically, such that they actually found one another's other personality traits attractive

In a weird way, Conundrum was a very good episode for character dynamics, even if some of the plot points were a bit lame. The Worf/Picard leadership interactions were equally as interesting as Riker/Ro. If only there had been time for Picard & Crusher to perhaps notice their own underlying relationship potential, unfettered by long standing inhibitions

Yeah, Riker going after Ro like he did just because she had a bad service record was downright pety. He didn't even give her the benefit of saying hello before he starts in on her. He moans about her earring being non-regulation, yet Troi wears that catsuit all the time, to say nothing of Worf's sash. No, favortism doesn't play a part in his actions at all. But yeah, he really is elitist towards any outsiders he's not trying to seduce. For a supposedly career minded man, he sure didn't want to take the kid gloves off either.

The biggest change I noticed about the memory wiped Riker was, for the first time when taken out of his comfort zone, he wasn't a jerk. Heck I thought it was hilarious he hooked up with Ro. As for the possible Picard/Crusher aspect, I dunno. Picard still had his reserved personality(to the point he was letting Worf call the shots for awhile), and probably wouldn't act on any attraction especially in that stage, just because he doesn't know. He could very well have a wife and ten kids somewhere else on the ship after all.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

Probably about as much as she come off as a brown nosing Bitch to him.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Riker was similiarly unprofessional when Captain Jellico became his CO. He really does have issues when it comes to change...

Or an issue, re: Jellico, with not having the free reign Picard always allowed him, which still shows he doesn't like change.

 

[Mr_Homn]

Agreed..... I think he was just firm and by the book.

Well, you WOULD think that, wouldn't you?

 

[Gil T.Azell]

SHE was the jerk IMHO...going "oh...and I´ll take your job".

Agreed..... I think he was just firm and by the book.

Well, you WOULD think that, wouldn't you?

Would be kinda funny if she be came his #1 on the Titan,

 

[R. Star]

Agreed..... I think he was just firm and by the book.

Well, you WOULD think that, wouldn't you?

Would be kinda funny if she be came his #1 on the Titan,

Actually she made Captain before Riker.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Worf could be a real asshole sometimes. Rewatch the series again and look for those moments when he's a total dick. It's hilarious.

Like when Data was asking about Worf's welfare and he says Begone!

Remmick was an asshole. The crew knew there was some sort of top secret investigation going on and he put them all on edge, leading everyone to believe they were all possibly suspected of something via his invasive questioning. I don't know that I'd say they hated Remmick, but they sure as shit didn't like him. And I can't say I blame them for that.

I thought once he said that it was a good crew and he wanted to serve on the same ship, that the crew would understand and lighten up a little. I dunno, but the look and reaction he got was cold to say the least.

With Riker and Shelby, it all depends who had the attitude first.

The poker game-when Shelby calls Riker's bluff, he gives her a look and this is in the first few minutes into the episode. Up until then, Shelby was pretty friendly, despite her aggressive attitude.

Riker was the one giving out vibes, at least at first. It's Riker, yes, he's the jerk.

 

[doubleohfive]

Worf could be a real asshole sometimes. Rewatch the series again and look for those moments when he's a total dick. It's hilarious.

Like when Data was asking about Worf's welfare and he says Begone!

One of my favorite moments is in "Starship Mine," when Worf manages to weasel his way out of the dinner party, only to have Geordi try the same thing and get rejected. Geordi shoots Worf a scowl, and Worf smirks.

 

[MacLeod]

Well, you WOULD think that, wouldn't you?

Would be kinda funny if she be came his #1 on the Titan,

Actually she made Captain before Riker.

Odd I'm sure I remember a Captain Riker commanding Officer USS Enterprise. True he did take a step down in grade once Picard returned.

 

[sonak]

Well, you WOULD think that, wouldn't you?

Would be kinda funny if she be came his #1 on the Titan,

Actually she made Captain before Riker.

Not surprising. Ensign Sonya Gomez probably made Captain before Riker considering how long he took.

 

[Satyrquaze]

The poker game-when Shelby calls Riker's bluff, he gives her a look and this is in the first few minutes into the episode. Up until then, Shelby was pretty friendly, despite her aggressive attitude.

Riker was the one giving out vibes, at least at first. It's Riker, yes, he's the jerk.

People tend to give out vibes after you inform them that you're after their job that you have no intention of giving up quite yet. It's rude in any envioment to make it known you have the intention to take someone's job from them.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Geordi is the biggest douche in the crew, but since that wasn't the question:

Shelby started it. Once Riker said he wasn't leaving, she should have backed the f**k down and let her experience and performance speak for itself. Instead she was a pushy bitch. As her superior, Riker had every right to slap her back into line. Once they got their places set in part 2, they got along fine.

Whether or not Riker staying XO for 15 years makes him realisitc is irrelevant (clip of Admiral Jerok: "Irrelevant! Irrelevant!"). It's a TV show and you need the cast in place. If this were realistic, everyone would have been on different ships by Nemesis.

As for Shelby making captain before Riker, sorry we never saw her again. Novels and bad fanfilms do not count.