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Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

How many women do you think have been impregnanted in the past, often against her will, and deserted by the man? Genetic testing has been available for less than 25 years, before that nature was very much against a woman being able to get any support from the father of her child if he denied parentage.

Even since it has become available some women still have been unable to get much out of a man (like in teacake's case, and my own case). Women, on the whole have always contributed heavily to the child's upkeep, more when she is outside of a marriage.

In my own case, a month after my marriage broke up, my now ex-husband gave me $5 to buy my middle child a present when that child was in hospital and never received another penny off of him. I only laid eyes on my husband once after that. My youngest son was about 18 months old when this happened, so I looked after him for another 16.5 years of childhood. UIf I had those children today, under current Australia law, I would be ble to take about 30% of his income for three children (maybe less because he had 2 children from an earlier marriage. If he had them to support I would get less).

My husband wanted him aborted. I refused. My husband bashed and kicked me when I refused trying to make me have a miscarriage. According to you my rights were so much superior to his. Poor, poor guy I was a nasty woman who made him have a child against his will.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

He still has the right to do that. he just has to find the right woman who wants to be the father of his children.

So.

In order for a man to pass on his genetic heritage he must have the consent and basically a decades long committment from a woman.

In order for a woman to pass on her genetic heritage all she has to do is find a one time willing partner?

Once again, it is making the womans rights superior and above that of the man.
Since the woman is the one carrying the child in her womb and taking the risk to health by doing so they deserve more say in such matters.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

He still has the right to do that. he just has to find the right woman who wants to be the father of his children.

So.

In order for a man to pass on his genetic heritage he must have the consent and basically a decades long committment from a woman.

In order for a woman to pass on her genetic heritage all she has to do is find a one time willing partner?

Once again, it is making the womans rights superior and above that of the man.
Since the woman is the one carrying the child in her womb and taking the risk to health by doing so they deserve more say in such matters.

Can't say I agree.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

So.

In order for a man to pass on his genetic heritage he must have the consent and basically a decades long committment from a woman.

In order for a woman to pass on her genetic heritage all she has to do is find a one time willing partner?

Once again, it is making the womans rights superior and above that of the man.
Since the woman is the one carrying the child in her womb and taking the risk to health by doing so they deserve more say in such matters.

Can't say I agree.
What risk does the man take with the pregnancy?
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I was shocked to find out that if I tried for child support today (if my children were still young) I would get a lot less money that I thought I would.

if my ex earned $30,000 a year, and I was on a carers pension unable to work (I had 2 disabled children so work was out of the question) I would be entitled to $2,262.00 a year in child support for three children.

Of course, according to some people that shows that my rights are superior despite the fact that my ex would get to keep more than $27,000 for himself.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

How many women do you think have been impregnanted in the past, often against her will, and deserted by the man? Genetic testing has been available for less than 25 years, before that nature was very much against a woman being able to get any support from the father of her child if he denied parentage.

Even since it has become available some women still have been unable to get much out of a man (like in teacake's case, and my own case). Women, on the whole have always contributed heavily to the child's upkeep, more when she is outside of a marriage.

This. When my parents divorced that-which-impregnated-my-mother bailed on his court ordered child support.

When the woman is left to raise the child single handed her rights (limited as they always are) do trump that of the male who can so easily bail out. I know the law appears to have changed, but I still meet young mothers who don't receive any form of child support after the break up or divorce.

So, yes, if a man wants a genetic heritage the onus is on him to prove to a woman that he can commit his life to raising the child.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But if it is always going to be "unfair" why tilt the scales in favor of the woman and not the man?

I agree with this. A careful study of history shows depressingly few examples of males being given the upper hand.

:shifty:
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Since the woman is the one carrying the child in her womb and taking the risk to health by doing so they deserve more say in such matters.

Can't say I agree.
What risk does the man take with the pregnancy?

Little if any that I know of.

But that is besides the point. Since when are "rights" derived from "risks".?

Soldiers voluntarily assume far, far, far greater "risks" in order to protect our nation and our culture.

Yet they receive no greater political rights than any other voter.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In what way is a mother receiving a greater right? If she has the child she will most likely be its primary caregiver plus more likely spend a larger portion of he total income she has on the child.

And why should a child of a man who wanted a child aborted be treated as less worthy of support than the child of a man who didn't want the child aborted. The father's wants shouldn't make the child less worthy of support.

From what I gather, Knight Templar, you are against abortion, but you also seem to be against a child receiving money from a father who wants the woman to have an abortion (even if the women is against abortion for moral reasons).
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

From what I gather, Knight Templar, you are against abortion, but you also seem to be against a child receiving money from a father who wants the woman to have an abortion (even if the women is against abortion for moral reasons).

No. You should reread carefully what I posted.

I'm against abortion. But I do think a man should be fully obligated for the support of his child regardless of the decisions of the mother.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Will if you think a man should be fully obligated why are you stating that the woman has superior rights? She hasn't.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Will if you think a man should be fully obligated why are you stating that the woman has superior rights? She hasn't.

I'm saying you can make the argument that the womans rights are superior given that you're basically giving a woman (through the right to have an abortion) control over a mans genetic heritage.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Even if she does have superior rights in one small area, on the whole women getting a rawer deal if life than the majority of men.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Fine.

The biology makes life "not fair". I never cared for fairness anyway.

But if it is always going to be "unfair" why tilt the scales in favor of the woman and not the man?

No one is.

I'm saying you can make the argument that the womans rights are superior given that you're basically giving a woman (through the right to have an abortion) control over a mans genetic heritage.

He can take that up with his biology and god.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Am I the only one that finds the repeated use of "genetic heritage" really weird?

At the very least, the word you're looking for is "legacy."
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Yet another reason people should not have sex unless they are married.
But they will anyhow. They always have. Good thing easily available contraceptives can reduce the consequences of this oh so predictable behavior.

I'll grant that people have always had sex before marriage or at least a large percentage of them have.

It was different 30-50 years ago. I've heard my parents, grandparents and others of that generation talk about it.

Back then, basically a couple that had been virgins and were still in high school would start dating and then start having sex.

Often, the boy would give the girl a "promise ring". The public idea was that it was a "pre engagement ring".

But privately everyone knew that the "promise" was actually "I promise that if you get pregnant we'll get married".

Couples had sex, a good percentage of them resulted in pregnancy, the couple got married and then were expected to stay together for life.

So yes, people were having sex before marriage, but in a large percentage of the cases, it was to a future spouse.

It in no way resembles things today where a person has two sex partners in junior high, three more sex partners in high school, three or four in college, and then a couple of more after college before they decide to get married.

:guffaw: awww nostalgia. I was born between 30 and 50 years ago. I lived in a nice perfect suburban world where no one's parents were divorced and our mom's all were housewives. Me and my friends used to sit around and compare how many months there were between when our parents got married and they had their first child. Rarely were there 9 months. My grandfather used to have a saying, 'the first child can come any time, after that they all seem to take 9 months'

for the record, my parents knew each other for 4 months before they got married, I was born 7 months after. Do the math.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Will if you think a man should be fully obligated why are you stating that the woman has superior rights? She hasn't.

I'm saying you can make the argument that the womans rights are superior given that you're basically giving a woman (through the right to have an abortion) control over a mans genetic heritage.

"Genetic heritage" is not a right. It is a privilege. Like all privileges, it needs to be earned. Part of the process of earning that privilege is meeting a woman who wants to be a mother. Then the onus is on the man to prove that he will commit his life to being a partner in the raising of that child.

Parenting functions at its best with two equally committed, equally willing partners.
 
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Am I the only one that finds the repeated use of "genetic heritage" really weird?

At the very least, the word you're looking for is "legacy."

You're not alone, Kestrel. It makes KS sound as if he sees women as simply brood mares for males to pass on their superior genetic code, or some such nonsense.

Slightly off topic, my paternal grandfather, who was born in 1892, was one of those 6-month-gestation-yet-full-term babies. :shifty:
 
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