Jaresh Inyo ‏ As President

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ As long as there are human beings who aren't perfect saints (which is, any human at all), there will always be a need for government.

Timo, your analogy does not hold, since New Yorkers who live in Greenwich Village are still able to participate in the workings of city government. All New Yorkers are represented in their city and state and national leadership. DC residents have no such luxury. Hell, it was only relatively recently that they could even vote for President!

 

[T'Girl]

^ Pealing off the residential sections of DC and incorporating them into Maryland, something similar was done with a third of DC and Virginia years ago, no need to create a new state. The National Capital would remain outside of any state, which would seem to have been the original intent. Those small munbers who for what ever reason have to live in the resulting smaller DC would be require to maintain a residence outside DC by law (example: the President has a house in Illinois), no new residences could be established by law.

Or something else, but not a new state.

 

[Sci]

^ Pealing off the residential sections of DC and incorporating them into Maryland, something similar was done with a third of DC and Virginia years ago, no need to create a new state.

No. There is a need to create a new state. The residents of the District have a distinct political and cultural identity from Maryland, and neither Maryland nor the District want retrocession. The residents of the District of Columbia have twice approved state constitutions. D.C. statehood is the way to go.

Further, the residents of the District already outnumber the residents of the State of Wyoming. Why should they get statehood and not D.C.?

The National Capital would remain outside of any state, which would seem to have been the original intent.

Fuck the original intent. None of the reasons for not granting statehood to D.C. apply anymore.

Those small munbers who for what ever reason have to live in the resulting smaller DC would be require to maintain a residence outside DC by law

For constitutional officers like Members of Congress, bad comparison. Legally, Members of Congress are residents of their home states, not of D.C.

For everyone else: You can't mandate that the people caught up in the resulting boundaries maintain a second residence. That would be a ridiculous, overburdensome abuse of governmental power.

 

[Lighthammer]

Man --- not sure if I want to step into this thread, but I guess I'll try my luck:

There's lots of on screen evidence stating that in fact, members of the federation retain their own governing bodies and decide whom they send to the Federation council through whatever political processes are employed.

Beyond that, its not uncommon for member worlds to have ships in Star Fleet that are staffed entirely with their crew, all of which are Star Fleet members.

Example from TOS: The USS Intrepid was maned exclusively by Vulcans. The Andorians and the Tellerites also had known ships allocated to them. Kirk mentions in an episode that he was 1st officer to an Andorian captain, although the specific details escape me.

As far as a greater look at the Federation structure goes, Star Trek Online's path to 2409 talks a lot about the politics of the Federation and its worth a read.

As far as DS9 goes, like many things in that series, its just so much easier to write it off as lack of research and thinking things out or budget.

 

[The Wormhole]

I think Ron Moore said they intentionally left out any referance to an Earth government to avoid confusing the audience.

 

[T'Girl]

Kirk mentions in an episode that he was 1st officer to an Andorian captain, although the specific details escape me.

In Yesteryear, Kirk had a Andorian first officer, Kirk never mention being anyone's first officer, although it's likely he was one at some point in his career.

 

[Sci]

I think Ron Moore said they intentionally left out any referance to an Earth government to avoid confusing the audience.

To be specific, this was what Moore had to say about the events of "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" on his old AOL board in 1997:

Subj: Answers
Date: 4/7/97 1:49:04 PM
From: RonDMoore

<<IN "Homefront" the President said he never sought this position. DOes this mean the Federation president is Appointed? Why no election? And why does the Federation President put Earth into a state of Emergency? Does earth not have it's own Government like all the other members of the Federation?>>

We assume the Fed President was duly elected, but that he reluctantly was induced to run for the position. As for the Earth Govt vs. Fed Govt issue, this was something we wrestled with in the story break. We wanted to tell the story of an attempted military coup of the Federation and that meant dealing with the Fed president. However, that meant the troops "in the streets" had to be on Earth and that Earth itself had to be under martial law since the Fed is headquartered on Earth. We discussed having the Prez "federalize" the Earth defense forces or supercede the authority of an indigenous Earth Govt, but the story kept getting too complicated and we didn't want to start mentioning all these other players and organizations that we weren't going to see. So in the end, we skirted the issue of who actually governs Earth. Personally, I think there is an Earth Govt that operates like more powerful versions of States do in the US system, but this is all VERY murky water. Gene was pretty smart back in the 60s when he decided not to discuss the exact outcome of Earth's political/social/economic future and we've come about as close to doing just that as I think we should.

 

[Sarahjs]

I went into this thread ready to give an opinion about how useless I though Jaresh-Inyo is as a Federation President, but all this discussion about governments has left me very confused.

While watching Homefront/Paradise lost, I kind of assumed that earth had no government of it's own and was governed entirely by the federation government. This is because Leyton came to J-I to approve the tightening of security on earth only. If there is an earth government, I think he would only need this government to approve security measures on earth and would only need to go to J-I to approve security measures for all federation planets, as he is the president of the federation, not of earth.

If there is an earth government, I have to assume that they are incredibly weak if they can't even pass security measures for their own planet and have to have the president of the federation to do so. I realize that the UFP president probably has emergency powers that can make the approvals go quicker without argument within a government's legislative body, but surely the PM/Pres of Earth would have the same emergency powers, but for his planet only.

Tl;dr: If there is an earth government, why did Leyton have to go to the UFP president to approve new security measures for earth?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Federation law overrides local Earth law. Jaresh-Inyo had the authority to declare martial law because he is the Federation President, and all member worlds - Earth included - must follow this.

And the above quote from RDM pretty much spells it out: they *were* going to show the United Earth government, but chose not to. There still is an intention to have one, they just chose to leave it out.

Also I think we have discussed clearly that not only IS there an Earth government, there MUST be. It would have been completely improper not to have one. Logically speaking, it must exist.

 

[MacLeod]

It is possible for say Human colonies to be independant of Earth, but cede certain responsibility to United Earth.

Perhaps the closest anaology would be dependant territories. I.e in the case of the UK, places like the Falkalnd Islands, Jersey, Isle of Man are independant of the UK but the UK represents their interests for things like defense.

 

[Disruptor]

The character served the plotline. If he had been too effective, Leyton wouldn't be able to manuevor. Too weak, and we'd be left thinking the Federation was full of dunces for electing him.

via Memory Alpha:

The DS9 writers saw Jaresh-Inyo as being like former US President Jimmy Carter, both good men, although not in conflict situations.

What else can you say? I think the oddest thing was picking a member of a previously unseen alien race to fill the roll of President.

 

[Photon]

The character served the plotline. If he had been too effective, Leyton wouldn't be able to manuevor. Too weak, and we'd be left thinking the Federation was full of dunces for electing him.

via Memory Alpha:

The DS9 writers saw Jaresh-Inyo as being like former US President Jimmy Carter, both good men, although not in conflict situations.

What else can you say? I think the oddest thing was picking a member of a previously unseen alien race to fill the roll of President.

That settles it. Jimmy Carter=nice guy, way over his head

 

[Sci]

I went into this thread ready to give an opinion about how useless I though Jaresh-Inyo is as a Federation President, but all this discussion about governments has left me very confused.

While watching Homefront/Paradise lost, I kind of assumed that earth had no government of it's own and was governed entirely by the federation government. This is because Leyton came to J-I to approve the tightening of security on earth only.

If you pay attention to the dialogue, though, Leyton makes it clear that, at first, he's talking about tightening security at Federation and Starfleet facilities on Earth, not at all public locations throughout the planet. It's the equivalent of the Chief of Naval Operations attempting to persuade the U.S. President to tighten security at federal offices and Naval installations. Even if there's a local government, it doesn't affect them.

Only later does Leyton attempt to persuade President Jaresh-Inyo to declare a state of emergency on Earth and put Federation troops on every street corner. But it's a well-established practice in federal systems for the federal government to have the authority to declare a state of emergency in a province or locality without needing to obtain that province's or locality's government first. U.S. President George W. Bush didn't need Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco's permission to declare a state of emergency after Hurricane Katrina -- in fact, Governor Blanco declared her own separate, Louisiana declaration of a state of emergency.

If there is an earth government, I think he would only need this government to approve security measures on earth and would only need to go to J-I to approve security measures for all federation planets, as he is the president of the federation, not of earth.

Again, no. He'd need the Federation President's authorization to tighten security at Federation government installations and at Starfleet bases. To make a comparison, if the Chief of Naval Operations wanted to tighten security at federal and Naval installations in Virginia, he wouldn't go to Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell -- Governor McDonnell has no authority over security at the Pentagon or at Norfolk Naval Base, even though both are in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

And, as I demonstrated above, a federal government doesn't need permission from the provincial government to declare a state of emergency in that province.

And, remember, part of Leyton's plan was to get the entire Federation government scared and on edge so that they'd accept him once he usurped power from the President.

It is possible for say Human colonies to be independant of Earth, but cede certain responsibility to United Earth.

Perhaps the closest anaology would be dependant territories. I.e in the case of the UK, places like the Falkalnd Islands, Jersey, Isle of Man are independant of the UK but the UK represents their interests for things like defense.

It's possible, but why would they do that? Pre-Federation, it would make more sense to stay a part of United Earth, so that you'd still be represented in the U.E. Parliament -- and, post-Federation, so that you'd still be represented in the Federation Council.

What else can you say? I think the oddest thing was picking a member of a previously unseen alien race to fill the roll of President.

I don't think it's that odd. The Federation has over 150 worlds -- it makes sense that it would include some species we the audience haven't seen yet.

 

[Sarahjs]

I went into this thread ready to give an opinion about how useless I though Jaresh-Inyo is as a Federation President, but all this discussion about governments has left me very confused.

While watching Homefront/Paradise lost, I kind of assumed that earth had no government of it's own and was governed entirely by the federation government. This is because Leyton came to J-I to approve the tightening of security on earth only.

If you pay attention to the dialogue, though, Leyton makes it clear that, at first, he's talking about tightening security at Federation and Starfleet facilities on Earth, not at all public locations throughout the planet. It's the equivalent of the Chief of Naval Operations attempting to persuade the U.S. President to tighten security at federal offices and Naval installations. Even if there's a local government, it doesn't affect them.

Only later does Leyton attempt to persuade President Jaresh-Inyo to declare a state of emergency on Earth and put Federation troops on every street corner. But it's a well-established practice in federal systems for the federal government to have the authority to declare a state of emergency in a province or locality without needing to obtain that province's or locality's government first. U.S. President George W. Bush didn't need Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco's permission to declare a state of emergency after Hurricane Katrina -- in fact, Governor Blanco declared her own separate, Louisiana declaration of a state of emergency.

If there is an earth government, I think he would only need this government to approve security measures on earth and would only need to go to J-I to approve security measures for all federation planets, as he is the president of the federation, not of earth.

Again, no. He'd need the Federation President's authorization to tighten security at Federation government installations and at Starfleet bases. To make a comparison, if the Chief of Naval Operations wanted to tighten security at federal and Naval installations in Virginia, he wouldn't go to Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell -- Governor McDonnell has no authority over security at the Pentagon or at Norfolk Naval Base, even though both are in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

And, as I demonstrated above, a federal government doesn't need permission from the provincial government to declare a state of emergency in that province.

And, remember, part of Leyton's plan was to get the entire Federation government scared and on edge so that they'd accept him once he usurped power from the President.

Thanks, your answer to my question does make a lot of sense and I understand better now and see why the earth gvt was not consulted for the issue, or maybe only consulted in the background, without it being shown in the episodes.

 

[Sci]

Thanks, your answer to my question does make a lot of sense and I understand better now and see why the earth gvt was not consulted for the issue, or maybe only consulted in the background, without it being shown in the episodes.

No problem. And that's my guess -- that the United Earth Prime Minister was consulted, but that his/her role was necessarily limited. Leyton hadn't been pushing at first to up any security at U.E. facilities, only Federation -- and then, when the Federation President declared a state of emergency, the issue would by definition have been taken out of the Prime Minister's hands until the UFP President rescinded his declaration.

 

[ILOVETREK1701]

I thought he was not active enough. He should have tightened security more and sooner. He said he refused to be the leader of paradise that let it go away but letting it slip away for a brief time is better than it being destroyed.

 

[Timo]

I wonder what the incident looked like to the (voting?) public. The tightened security measures were necessarily visible to the citizens of Earth, and no doubt were relayed to the broader UFP through whatever public and private media exist in the era. But how much of Leyton's role was broadcast, and how much of Jaresh-Inyo's? Does the President come off as a stalwart defender of freedoms here, the man who defeated Leyton by stalling? Or is he branded an irrelevant puppet and the heroic role of Sisko made public - possibly a necessary move to prevent Starfleet from being the out-and-out villain of the piece in the final analysis?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sci]

I wonder what the incident looked like to the (voting?) public. The tightened security measures were necessarily visible to the citizens of Earth, and no doubt were relayed to the broader UFP through whatever public and private media exist in the era. But how much of Leyton's role was broadcast, and how much of Jaresh-Inyo's? Does the President come off as a stalwart defender of freedoms here, the man who defeated Leyton by stalling? Or is he branded an irrelevant puppet and the heroic role of Sisko made public - possibly a necessary move to prevent Starfleet from being the out-and-out villain of the piece in the final analysis?

Timo Saloniemi

The novels established that the entire ordeal became public -- from Leyton's transfers of personnel loyal to him in key Starfleet positions, to the rigging of the Wormhole to make it open and close randomly so people would think cloaked Dominion ships were entering the Alpha Quadrant, to the role of the actual Changeling at the Antwerp Bombing, to Leyton's seizing the opportunity to press for tighter security on Earth, to Leyton's orders to have Red Squad sabotage the power relay system, to his manipulating the President into declaring a state of emergency on Earth, to his intent to overthrow the Federation government and install himself as military dictator of the Federation, to Sisko's successful attempts to thwart his coup with the help of the Defiant and the Lakota crew's decision to stand down.

All of it was made public. A special commission was then formed to investigate the "Leyton Affair," as it became known, which faulted the Federation and United Earth governments and Starfleet for not having enough checks in place to prevent someone from attempting something like that in the first place. 2372 was an election year, and Jaresh-Inyo lost his re-election bid to Federation Councillor Min Zife of Bolarus, because the public felt that he had shown poor leadership by allowing himself to be duped by Leyton, and because Zife's more defense-oriented policy was felt to be more appropriate a response to the Dominion threat.

 

[Timo]

to the role of the actual Changeling at the Antwerp Bombing

...Ah, so there was a Changeling present there for real? Was it involved in the bombing?

Outside the novels, it would appear that Leyton would be a prime suspect in forging the evidence of Changeling presence, although it would be a bit much to assume he bombed the conference as well. Plenty of people would wish to see such a meeting bombed, including radical groups from the respective cultures, any outside power wishing to wreak random havoc, assassins targeting specific people, or any of the players taking part in the conference and wanting to see it fail/succeed but realizing that negotiations alone would not do the trick.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[R. Star]

Jaresh Inyo basically struck me as a populist who didn't want to rile things up but would yield to public sentiment on any given issue.