To "The" or not to "The"
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Well, that doesn't make sense, because "Federation starship" is not part of the name, it's just a description. It's "I command the Federation starship [named] Enterprise." You'd use the article for the description even when you wouldn't use it for the proper name. For instance, I wouldn't say "I live in the Cincinnati," but I would say "I live in the city of Cincinnati." Or you wouldn't say "the Abraham Lincoln," but you would say "The President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln."
However, in the United States, the prefix for ships is U.S.S., which stands for United States Ship. In Star Trek, they wanted to keep the same prefix, so they said it stood for "United Star Ship". Saying "the United States Ship Enterprise" doesn't sound out of place, as it would when using the article with, say, HMS.
The use of the definite article in English is oddly inconsistent with other sorts of proper nouns as well. It's always (AFAIK) the Grand Canyon, but Bryce Canyon never gets the definite article, nor does Red Rock Canyon. The names of rivers are almost always proceded by the definite article (there may be exceptions but I can't think of any), but creeks aren't usually, nor are lakes. And for lots of proper nouns, whether or not any article is used varies depending on context, e.g. "He's going to Earth" vs. "He is going to the Earth."
That ship's names aren't treated uniformly therefore shouldn't be a big surprise. I can tell you that the subject of whether to use the definite article, the indefinite article or no article at all is one that has baffled many English as a 2nd Language students, and when you think about it, you can see why.
That ship's names aren't treated uniformly therefore shouldn't be a big surprise. I can tell you that the subject of whether to use the definite article, the indefinite article or no article at all is one that has baffled many English as a 2nd Language students, and when you think about it, you can see why.
Interesting timing as the article I wrote for TrekToday and published yesterday this whole topic crossed my mind.
Because with Voyager it was called the Voyager at the beginning of the show, I remember Paris saying it specifically and there were probably others. But then it was dropped.
So I did wonder, is it right to write one ship one way and another the other way. So in trying to create consistency across the ships, I did call it the Voyager. Plus - mentally - it sounds more ship like.
Although having said that without the 'the' sounds fine to to me really... I just don't know!
Because with Voyager it was called the Voyager at the beginning of the show, I remember Paris saying it specifically and there were probably others. But then it was dropped.
So I did wonder, is it right to write one ship one way and another the other way. So in trying to create consistency across the ships, I did call it the Voyager. Plus - mentally - it sounds more ship like.
Although having said that without the 'the' sounds fine to to me really... I just don't know!
I think that's because "Grand" is more a description -- it's not named for something called Grand the way Bryce Canyon is named for somebody called Bryce. It's the grand canyon as opposed to all the other, less grand canyons.
I think that when spoken aloud, it's easier to say "Voyager" than "the Voyager." The voiced th and v sounds so close together could be a bit awkward.
My knee-jerk reaction that is because "grand" is an adjective, while "Bryce" is a proper noun.
EDIT: reacted before I saw Christopher's post.
To the US Navy sailor, using "the" before a ship's name in used to be a giveaway that one was a civilian or a landlubber or, worst of all, a soldier. Also saying "on" a vessel instead of "in." The truly salty expression would be "Back when I was in Hornet..." rather than "Back when I was on the Hornet..." I believe this has died out somewhat. But read Delilah by Marcus Goodrich, Run Silent, Run Deep by Edward Beach, The Sand Pebbles by Richard McKenna -- all former or serving navy men -- and there's not a definite article to be found before a vessel's name.
Justin
Justin
My knee-jerk reaction that is because "grand" is an adjective, while "Bryce" is a proper noun.
EDIT: reacted before I saw Christopher's post.
Good point, gentlemen - perhaps that's why it's the Black Canyon of the Gunnison, too.
But I think my larger point, which is that there are a number of inconsistencies in English (American, British and others) as to how the definite article is or is not used with proper nouns, remains valid.
How else to explain why I can (and do) say with perfect propriety "I need to get that information from the USDA" but also "I need to get that information from USDA"; why it's sometimes "Earth" and sometimes "the Earth" but never "the Mars"; and why rivers almost always rate a "the," but streams do not - but at the same time both mountain ranges and ranges of hills rate a "the." And, of course, why sometimes the names of vessels are preceded by a "the" while other times they are not. It's all kind of odd, when you think about it, which as native speakers of English we seldom have to do.
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Oh, I think about those oddities from time to time. One that gets me is, why do we "go to school/work/the store" but just "go home?" It's like "home" is treated as a direction (a la "go up," "go back," "go left") or a relative position indicator (like "go there" or "come over") rather than a location. We also find it in "take me home" or "May I see you home?"
Interesting!
Word nerd! Word nerd!
As am I, of course. And then there are all these variations based on one's dialect or subdialect - e.g., in the US, one can go to college, a college or the college, but one aways goes to a university, the university, a hospital or the hospital. However, in Britain, one can to university or hospital, sans an article. And in the Bay Area, if you say you're going to the city, it means San Francisco, even though there are lots of other large cities in the area.
So, to those of you trying to find consistency and language in English and its use of articles, whether now or in the 23rd and 24th centuries, I say good luck and bon voyage.
BTW, re. JTB's point, that may have been true, but...a couple of years ago for an article that featured various veterans of WWII, I interviewed a man who'd served aboard the Hornet, and he routinely said "the Hornet." Maybe he didn't when he was actually serving, but by the time I interviewed him, he used the definite article.
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When I moved from Seattle to New York, I quickly discovered that if I mentioned "Washington," people assumed I meant D.C., not that state above Oregon . . ..
I had to train myself to say "Washington State," not just "Washngton." Even though nobody in the Northwest calls it that.
^ Yes, I'm from California and at least when I was growing up, if you said "Washington," everyone knew you meant the state of Washington. I don't know if it's because I'm in Indiana now or if it's just a change in the mindset across much of the nation, but now if I mean the state, I have to tell them so explicitly.
Could part of using the definite article is that we use it to place on empathise on something. Even if others things are known/have been known by that name?
For ships some ships become more famous than others even if there share a name with a previous one. So by adding the before it we assume the other person knows which one we mean.
For ships some ships become more famous than others even if there share a name with a previous one. So by adding the before it we assume the other person knows which one we mean.
That has also been my experience. The influx of draftees in wartime always waters down the "Old Navy" traditions, which then regain some ground with those who continue in the peacetime service. And those who only served a few wartime years easily fall back into more civilian usages as time goes by.
I though I had some book around here that talked about "in a ship" vs. "on a ship" but I'm damned if I can find it. But here are a couple of examples:
"For us in San Pablo every day is Flag Day," Lt. Collins went on.
--Richard McKenna, The Sand Pebbles, 1962
Marcus Goodrich actually served in Delilah -- whose real identity was U.S.S. Chauncey, Destroyer Number 3.
--Edward L. Beach, captain, USN (ret), introduction to Delilah by Marcus Goodrich, 1965
McKenna was a retired chief machinist's mate who served 1931-1953.
Justin
i don't get why you'd say you served "in" a ship not "on" a ship. that's just weird.
viz the use of 'the' before ship names in the UK, i've heard people refer to 'the Ark Royal' plenty of times, but it's more usually HMS Ocean or HMS Glamorgan and no definite article.
viz the use of 'the' before ship names in the UK, i've heard people refer to 'the Ark Royal' plenty of times, but it's more usually HMS Ocean or HMS Glamorgan and no definite article.
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