Command Dilemma in Doomsday Machine

[ROBE]

In real world navies not all captains are captains.
The captain is the commander of the ship or boat, they miight be a lieutenant, lieutenant commander, commander or captain depending on size of ship and crew.

Likewise on a ship if the captain is away and XO then the next senior officer would take charge unless they are non combatant like a surgeon or dentist.

 

[MacLeod]

So you have two captains and can not contact Starfleet who would have the most authority? Tenure may come into play, also possibly ship strength and the size of the crew that each one commands.

They may both be captains but they are not equals. One will be senior by date of rank or something, there are no ties. Actually for that reason the US Army prefers to use the term "grade" for the title and "rank" to refer to who is senior, even within the same grade.

Well, I think a pure seniority system would be ridiculous.

For example if you had the U.S.S. Sovereign commanded by a captain with 7 years at that rank operating with an Oberth class vessel (U.S.S. Deathtrap!) commanded by a captain with 8 years at that rank.

OTOH, what if you had Kirk on Enterprise who had been "out there" for many years suddenly have to take orders from a newly-promoted captain of an Excelsior? At any rate, it makes sense that less important commands would go to more junior captains and the more important and powerful ones to the more senior. Like I said, this kind of thing has worked for hundreds of years, and what we've seen in Trek isn't so dissimilar from historic naval practice that it wouldn't work there.

Well in the case of Kirk, from a PR point of view it makes sense to keep him on the Enterprise. No doubt many Captain's would defer to him anyway, given his long service and saving Planets does help.

Starfleet could also name the Enterprise as the flagship of the fleet. So that might trump the tactical advantage card.

Perhaps as well Starfleet and by extension the Federation couldn't be seen to be rewarding Kirk too much following the Genesis Incident. It might not play well to races such as the Klingons to give Kirk command of their latest and most advanced ship.

 

[Knight Templar]

In real world navies not all captains are captains.
The captain is the commander of the ship or boat, they miight be a lieutenant, lieutenant commander, commander or captain depending on size of ship and crew.

Likewise on a ship if the captain is away and XO then the next senior officer would take charge unless they are non combatant like a surgeon or dentist.

You are correct. In the U.S. Navy, many if not most submarine commanding officers are only commanders and not captains.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well, I think a pure seniority system would be ridiculous.

For example if you had the U.S.S. Sovereign commanded by a captain with 7 years at that rank operating with an Oberth class vessel (U.S.S. Deathtrap!) commanded by a captain with 8 years at that rank.

Yeah but the captain of the death trap has not only got more experience then the Sovereign captain, but the fact that his ship hasn't blown up yet says he has got to be pretty good at being the captain.

A year more of experience? And he probably didn't command the U.S.S. Deathtrap for 8 years. Maybe he was captain of a Constellation class vessel (another old clunker) and then transferred to the U.S.S. Deathtrap when his other vessel was scrapped.

You're shifting the goal posts.

And even if he did the ship doesn't matter he has more experience, besides if Star Trek 3 taught us anything its that advanced ships aren't as invincible as you may think they are.

 

[Knight Templar]

Yeah but the captain of the death trap has not only got more experience then the Sovereign captain, but the fact that his ship hasn't blown up yet says he has got to be pretty good at being the captain.

A year more of experience? And he probably didn't command the U.S.S. Deathtrap for 8 years. Maybe he was captain of a Constellation class vessel (another old clunker) and then transferred to the U.S.S. Deathtrap when his other vessel was scrapped.

You're shifting the goal posts.

And even if he did the ship doesn't matter he has more experience, besides if Star Trek 3 taught us anything its that advanced ships aren't as invincible as you may think they are.

Let's see, one of Starfleets best engineers with apparently full and complete access to all the systems of the Excelsior manages to sabotage it temporarily (and prototypes are inherently more vulnerable).

Harding worth arguing over.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

A year more of experience? And he probably didn't command the U.S.S. Deathtrap for 8 years. Maybe he was captain of a Constellation class vessel (another old clunker) and then transferred to the U.S.S. Deathtrap when his other vessel was scrapped.

You're shifting the goal posts.

And even if he did the ship doesn't matter he has more experience, besides if Star Trek 3 taught us anything its that advanced ships aren't as invincible as you may think they are.

Let's see, one of Starfleets best engineers with apparently full and complete access to all the systems of the Excelsior manages to sabotage it temporarily (and prototypes are inherently more vulnerable).

Harding worth arguing over.

There is also the fact that Ransom and the Equinox had no problem eluding Janeway and her tactically superior Voyager for a decent amount of time.

Not to mention that and while this isn't canon, the DC comic The Mirror Universe Saga showed pretty well how experience trumps tactical superiority of a ship with Mirror Kirk was able to defeat the Excelsior.

 

[Knight Templar]

You're shifting the goal posts.

And even if he did the ship doesn't matter he has more experience, besides if Star Trek 3 taught us anything its that advanced ships aren't as invincible as you may think they are.

Let's see, one of Starfleets best engineers with apparently full and complete access to all the systems of the Excelsior manages to sabotage it temporarily (and prototypes are inherently more vulnerable).

Harding worth arguing over.

There is also the fact that Ransom and the Equinox had no problem eluding Janeway and her tactically superior Voyager for a decent amount of time.

Not to mention that and while this isn't canon, the DC comic The Mirror Universe Saga showed pretty well how experience trumps tactical superiority of a ship with Mirror Kirk was able to defeat the Excelsior.

Now you're moving the goal posts.

 

[MacLeod]

A year more of experience? And he probably didn't command the U.S.S. Deathtrap for 8 years. Maybe he was captain of a Constellation class vessel (another old clunker) and then transferred to the U.S.S. Deathtrap when his other vessel was scrapped.

You're shifting the goal posts.

And even if he did the ship doesn't matter he has more experience, besides if Star Trek 3 taught us anything its that advanced ships aren't as invincible as you may think they are.

Let's see, one of Starfleets best engineers with apparently full and complete access to all the systems of the Excelsior manages to sabotage it temporarily (and prototypes are inherently more vulnerable).

Harding worth arguing over.

Not to mention said Engineer wrote several of the regs still in use almost a hundred years later

 

[J.T.B.]

Well in the case of Kirk, from a PR point of view it makes sense to keep him on the Enterprise. No doubt many Captain's would defer to him anyway, given his long service and saving Planets does help.

Starfleet could also name the Enterprise as the flagship of the fleet. So that might trump the tactical advantage card.

Maybe, but I still don't see what advantages that would offer over going with the senior officer present.

Justin

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Let's see, one of Starfleets best engineers with apparently full and complete access to all the systems of the Excelsior manages to sabotage it temporarily (and prototypes are inherently more vulnerable).

Harding worth arguing over.

There is also the fact that Ransom and the Equinox had no problem eluding Janeway and her tactically superior Voyager for a decent amount of time.

Not to mention that and while this isn't canon, the DC comic The Mirror Universe Saga showed pretty well how experience trumps tactical superiority of a ship with Mirror Kirk was able to defeat the Excelsior.

Now you're moving the goal posts.

How I'm showing examples of how seniority and the experience that goes with it can trump having a fancier starship.