Is my middle-aged friend wrong to propose to a teenager?

[Misfit Toy]

My advice – stay out of it completely.

Winner!

Regardless of WHO is lobbying you to speak out...it's none of your business. The couple doesn't need your approval, nor do they need your disapproval.

The only thing that is up to you is how you are going to treat them. As friends, as former friends, as aquaintances - whatever.

 

[Jefferies]

But it's not that simple. In that generic clinical situation I lack context to make a more informed decision and I'm basing my concern on the experience I have had in general with situations like this. But with my friend I have context that puts the story in a somewhat different light.

It is that simple. You've said what your judgment would be in a professional context based on empirical evidence from similar situations and have stated that you're concerned that in this situation your personal feelings are clouding your objectivity. It sounds like your having what Dr. Robert B. Cialdini (a well know psychologist) calls a heart of hearts attack. You already know this is a really bad idea but don't want to call out a friend. This is why medical and mental health professionals don't treat family and friends.

My advice – stay out of it completely.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

It's not easy to stay out of it when everyone on each side is constantly involving you. I think what I have taken from this thread so far is to advise them to slow it down. Don't propose, keep a low profile and wait until she gets to her 20s until starting to make any noise about this relationship. And maybe she should stay living with her parents until then as well. I suppose they feel that they are under a lot of pressure and as a result the whole idea of proposing was cooked up.

 

[Lumi]

It is a bit creepy to me that he has known her since she was a child, which wasn't long ago really, and that she is the daughter of another friend? Eep...

Honestly, it will reflect badly. Give advice of course, but in the end they probably won't listen and you'll have to let them make the mistake.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I don't think it's really appropriate for others to get involved in this situation. If her parents don't approve, they are welcome to express their disapproval and whatever that entails. If it means they no longer provide her financial support, etc. then so be it. It doesn't sound like anyone is convinced he's done anything wrong, yet people want to break them up because the relationship is "unusual."

I think people trying to tell her what to do will only backfire and make her more determined to go through with the engagement. She probably is too young to be sure what she wants out of life (who even knows what they want at 18?) but good luck convincing her of that.

I don't think his relationship with her is a "threat." I think it probably won't work out in the long run, but honestly, people with tons of things in common who are the same age and seem perfect together get divorced every day--you really can't predict these things. If you have a genuine problem with it, you're free to speak your mind. But it doesn't sound as though you do.

Also, don't underestimate her parents' desire to protect and/or control her, and that can easily distort their motives. It's unlikely they are at a point where they'd be happy with her asserting herself on any major life choices--it's just part of being the parent of a young adult.

Bottom line: don't get involved unless you have reason to believe there really is something "wrong" here. Even then, they are under no obligation to listen to you.

 

[Jefferies]

My advice – stay out of it completely.

Winner!

Regardless of WHO is lobbying you to speak out...it's none of your business. The couple doesn't need your approval, nor do they need your disapproval.

The only thing that is up to you is how you are going to treat them. As friends, as former friends, as aquaintances - whatever.

Well they certainly seek my approval. And just meeting them when they are together is seen as approval from the other side. As a friend more is expected from you than just neutrality. So what ever I do I can't win.

 

[Deckerd]

I think it's more the age than the age gap. If they were, say, 28 and 45, it would be very different.

Also, I have to say that it feels creepy that he knew her from when she was a little child.

Clearly you're never read Emma.

 

[Jefferies]

I don't think it's really appropriate for others to get involved in this situation. If her parents don't approve, they are welcome to express their disapproval and whatever that entails. If it means they no longer provide her financial support, etc. then so be it. It doesn't sound like anyone is convinced he's done anything wrong, yet people want to break them up because the relationship is "unusual."

I think people trying to tell her what to do will only backfire and make her more determined to go through with the engagement. She probably is too young to be sure what she wants out of life (who even knows what they want at 18?) but good luck convincing her of that.

I don't think his relationship with her is a "threat." I think it probably won't work out in the long run, but honestly, people with tons of things in common who are the same age and seem perfect together get divorced every day--you really can't predict these things. If you have a genuine problem with it, you're free to speak your mind. But it doesn't sound as though you do.

Also, don't underestimate her parents' desire to protect and/or control her, and that can easily distort their motives. It's unlikely they are at a point where they'd be happy with her asserting herself on any major life choices--it's just part of being the parent of a young adult.

Bottom line: don't get involved unless you have reason to believe there really is something "wrong" here. Even then, they are under no obligation to listen to you.

I think what you say is well balanced. Thing is they don't want to offend anyone. The girl is very anxious to have approval from her parents and so is her boyfriend. Afterall they have all known each other for many years and used to be on very good terms indeed. It's just such a shame the situation has become so heated.

 

[Sector 7]

My own stepmom is younger than me. She and Dad started dating when she was 19 and Dad was in his 40s. She is a wonderful, Christian woman and the best thing that ever happened to him. My mom is wife #1 and lasted 4 years, #2 lasted 18 years, #3 less than a year, but #4 lasted almost 30 years until he died [February 18, 2012]. I am forever grateful, as a Christian, that Stepmom led my dad to have a relationship with Christ. He was a much better person for having loved Stepmom. Like your friends, her parents did not approve and are probably happy Dad is dead.

My advice: don't be judgmental, don't take sides [you are not required to approve nor disapprove], just be their friend. They will need a friend like you during the rough emotional seas ahead.

 

[Deckerd]

You say not to be judgemental but you say her family are probably happy he died. You're not practising what you preach.

 

[Sector 7]

You say not to be judgemental but you say her family are probably happy he died. You're not practising what you preach.

30 years of hearing them say it lets me know their mindset. Her parents hated Dad and said so often. Even after Dad died, they told Stepmom that now she is free to find a decent man. I try to remember that her parents are now in their 80s, so odds are they will never change.

 

[Jefferies]

My own stepmom is younger than me. She and Dad started dating when she was 19 and Dad was in his 40s. She is a wonderful, Christian woman and the best thing that ever happened to him. My mom is wife #1 and lasted 4 years, #2 lasted 18 years, #3 less than a year, but #4 lasted almost 30 years until he died [February 18, 2012]. I am forever grateful, as a Christian, that Stepmom led my dad to have a relationship with Christ. He was a much better person for having loved Stepmom. Like your friends, her parents did not approve and are probably happy Dad is dead.

My advice: don't be judgmental, don't take sides [you are not required to approve nor disapprove], just be their friend. They will need a friend like you during the rough emotional seas ahead.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss and thank you for sharing. You see I want to be a good friend to them. I do feel they are being treated unfairly. But with something like this everyone just assumes the worst. All 18 year olds are immature and indecisive and all mature men are predators. But it just isn't true. In the end I just hope it can be reconciled without too many hard feelings.

 

[Kestra]

I feel like you're asking a question you've already made up your mind about.

I dunno, there's something in between actively advocating for them or shunning them. Those are both bad ideas really. Personally I think that they are behaving kind of stupidly and that they need to really slow it down, but their relationship isn't my business. It's not yours either.

Do what you're comfortable with in terms of social interactions, but make it clear to everyone that you're staying out of this and forcing you to take sides will only ensure that you don't take their side. Parents have a different stake in this relationship but what are they going to do, try to get everyone to socially ostracize them? That's not going to help. You also won't be doing anyone favors by trying to speak up for your friend like you have been here.

Seriously, stay out of it.

In terms of my own experiences with parents disapproving of my (age-appropriate) relationship, they kept saying things like "I know you think you are in love ..." and it was incredibly frustrating. I was 18 at the time. Ultimately the way for them to come around was to spend time with them as a couple, and to just stay with him. It took a couple of years but they realized that we were in fact serious. Of course we didn't have the "ick" factor that is going on here that might always cause issues for her parents.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Frankly, I would try to stay out of it. But this would be my main concern:

And yeah, I have to agree that this would reflect badly upon him as a teacher. Regardless of whether or not anything illicit has happened, I think a lot of people will come to that conclusion and would not want their girls in a class with him.

 

[doubleohfive]

My advice – stay out of it completely.

Winner!

Regardless of WHO is lobbying you to speak out...it's none of your business. The couple doesn't need your approval, nor do they need your disapproval.

The only thing that is up to you is how you are going to treat them. As friends, as former friends, as aquaintances - whatever.

THIS.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's a tricky situation and so hard to judge from the outside. I'm generally for adults choosing their own lives. They're both consenting adults, so, that's my starting point. It's theirs to choose.

However, there is the concern of manipulation and the concern of it starting prior to her being an adult. The current relationship *could* represent a carry over of previous manipulation from before she was an adult. That's a true concern. Some would say that the age difference, when it involves someone so young, represents an excessive power differential and manipulation all by itself.

If you truly know the people involved and there is no indication of manipulation, I'd be supportive of your friend. But, keep your eyes and ears open. If you eventually see signs of anything improper, you should be the first to sound the alarm.

He wasn't her teacher, was he? Just curious.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

I don't think 18 and mid-30s are compatible in maturity (either in physical brain development or in life experience), life experiences, or really much of anything that would lead to a successful relationship. I too would question the 18-year-old's decision-making skills. I would also question the older man's decision-making skills, if he is unable to see the problems that this sort of disparity creates. Not a mix for a successful relationship, if you ask me.

Age gaps in general do not have to be a problem. But when you're dealing with an adolescent, who still has not fully developed (and the brain and way of thinking do continue to change noticeably up to about the age of 25), and an older adult, then to me the disparity is questionable.

And yeah, I have to agree that this would reflect badly upon him as a teacher. Regardless of whether or not anything illicit has happened, I think a lot of people will come to that conclusion and would not want their girls in a class with him.

As a medical professional I agree with your points about neurological development. However, in this particular case the disparities are less strong than one might normally think. The girl for one is remarkably mature and very focused with regard to her goals in life. Also these two people have a great deal in common. It's uncanny really. They have the same interests, values, life goals, even their ways of thinking and personality are very similar.

Just an observation, the more you write the more you reveal that you've already decided and have taken sides.

Nothing wrong with that, but just be upfront about it.

While, I don't think there is anything morally wrong with this age gap by itself, I would highly doubt it lasting. As others have said, at 18 she doesn't know what she really wants yet. Yes, that's true no matter how mature she is for her age.

BTW, in other reports of similar relationships that involve adolescents, that's a common theme. And, it seems to be more of a cover up for the older person because you'd have to wonder why they'd be satisfied with someone that is so much less mature than they are?

Mr Awe

 

[Balrog]

It is an uncomfortable situation. Two friends the about the same age are now father-in-law and son-in-law.

But she is 18. It's her choice, and by law she can do as she pleases.

I'd stay out of it. Thanksgivings and Christmases are going to be weird enough...

 

[horatio83]

The parents also feel that someone so much older could easily manipulate her and influence how she makes life choices etc.

Yep, it hurts to realize that you are no longer the only one who can manipulate your child.

 

[Yoda]

A girl in my high school was dating a 31 year old guy starting the summer before senior year, so she was 17. His dad owned the company she worked at during the summer. Thought that shit was creepy as hell then. After they eventually broke up he was in borderline stalker mode trying to get back together with her for years, with her not wanting anything to do with him.

But hey, we have a very simple rule. The women you're allowed to date without being automatically creepy need to be half your age plus 7 years. Nice and simple. 35 / 2 + 7 = 24.5... I'm a generous sort, so I'll chop off the 0.5 and call it 24. 18? Way down in the creep zone. Knew her since she was 10? Extra creep points. Daughter of one of your friends? Extra creep points as well.

So, on the unified scale of creepiness, dude is a total fucking creep.

 

[Jefferies]

He wasn't her teacher, was he? Just curious.

No he has always worked at a different school.

It is an uncomfortable situation. Two friends the about the same age are now father-in-law and son-in-law.

Actually I think they could get to terms with that. both parents are over a decade older than he is. I think what is most difficult for them is what others have been pointing out as "creepy". I can definitely see where the parents are comming from with that. Afterall this is a complete redefinition of a relationship which had been judged by them to be avuncular. And eventhough he isn't her uncle and he says he never felt like he was it's the perception that matters.

A girl in my high school was dating a 31 year old guy starting the summer before senior year, so she was 17. His dad owned the company she worked at during the summer. Thought that shit was creepy as hell then. After they eventually broke up he was in borderline stalker mode trying to get back together with her for years, with her not wanting anything to do with him.

I highy doubt he would ever do that, he has already asked her several times if she truly wants to persue this relationship.