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Is my middle-aged friend wrong to propose to a teenager?

Jefferies

Captain
Captain
I'm currently facing a dilemma regarding how I should act towards a good friend of mine and I would be interested in what people generally think about this. The reason being that the majority of people I know seem to have a rather one-sided view of the issue.

The situation is as follows. My friend who is in his mid-thirties wants to propose to his girlfriend who is 18. Now this girls is the daughter of another slightly older friend of ours and indeed we have known her since she was just 10 years old. Over the years it seems my friend and this girl became very close. Contact, as far as can be told, was not illicit and would usually take place through social events at the father's house. However, no one realised how close their relationship got and when the girl turned 18 they started dating. Her parents whom I'm both good friends with as well as almost everyone else who knows about it is appalled by these developments and they are lobbying me to speak out against it as well. They all seem to feel that it is inappropriate because of the age gap, but mainly because he knew her when she was little and that he has abused the trust of his friend who is the father of this girl. There is also concern that he has somehow manipulated her.

However, from what I have seen, these two truly love each other. To me there is no sign of anything sinister - past or present. He cares deeply for her welfare and they both insist that there was no sexual relationship before she was an adult. They have a huge amount in common and are extremely happy together. When they are together that is, as she still lives with her parents who are trying to dissuade her from leaving to live with my friend. Also my friend is a very gentle, kind and well meaning sort of guy who is successful in his job as a high school teacher (with an unblemished record btw).

So maybe it's a bit unorthodox, but is there really something wrong or even morally apprehensible about what my friend is doing? In my opinion these are two consenting adults and they should just be left alone. I suppose what is really hard for my friend who is the father of the girl is to accept the idea that these two obviously had feelings for each other when she was still a minor and it isn't quite clear how much they acted on this. The parents also feel that someone so much older could easily manipulate her and influence how she makes life choices etc.

So what kind of a stance would you take in a situation like this? Do you see any kind of threat from my friend towards this girl? Or might this relationship turn out to affect him negatively, for example his parents are worried this could reflect badly on his role as a teacher? Or is it just that people are too ageist about a relationship like this?
 
I'm not that much bothered by the age gap, as by the thought of proposing to an 18-years-old girl. I think 18 is too early for marriage. Of course, proposing doesn't mean they'll get married tomorrow, but I still think it's too early.
 
Clearly they're not taking the increased average longevity into account then. I wouldn't even count 44 as middle aged nowadays.
 
I'm not that much bothered by the age gap, as by the thought of proposing to an 18-years-old girl. I think 18 is too early for marriage. Of course, proposing doesn't mean they'll get married tomorrow, but I still think it's too early.

Yes, I don't believe they intend to get married any time soon. It's more about making a symbolic gesture that makes it clear to everyone how serious they are about the relationship.
 
Personally, I would say proposing would just exacerbate the situation and would seem to be in her parents eyes nothing more than a "fuck you!" to them, even if it seems and I think its completely benign.

If its purely a symbolic gesture, I'd make the argument against simply because it would piss off everyone and make matters worse. At least wait until she's in her early 20s and in the eyes of the law, a full adult.
 
I don't think 18 and mid-30s are compatible in maturity (either in physical brain development or in life experience), life experiences, or really much of anything that would lead to a successful relationship. I too would question the 18-year-old's decision-making skills. I would also question the older man's decision-making skills, if he is unable to see the problems that this sort of disparity creates. Not a mix for a successful relationship, if you ask me.

Age gaps in general do not have to be a problem. But when you're dealing with an adolescent, who still has not fully developed (and the brain and way of thinking do continue to change noticeably up to about the age of 25), and an older adult, then to me the disparity is questionable.

And yeah, I have to agree that this would reflect badly upon him as a teacher. Regardless of whether or not anything illicit has happened, I think a lot of people will come to that conclusion and would not want their girls in a class with him.
 
I don't think 18 and mid-30s are compatible in maturity (either in physical brain development or in life experience), life experiences, or really much of anything that would lead to a successful relationship. I too would question the 18-year-old's decision-making skills. I would also question the older man's decision-making skills, if he is unable to see the problems that this sort of disparity creates. Not a mix for a successful relationship, if you ask me.

Age gaps in general do not have to be a problem. But when you're dealing with an adolescent, who still has not fully developed (and the brain and way of thinking do continue to change noticeably up to about the age of 25), and an older adult, then to me the disparity is questionable.

And yeah, I have to agree that this would reflect badly upon him as a teacher. Regardless of whether or not anything illicit has happened, I think a lot of people will come to that conclusion and would not want their girls in a class with him.

As a medical professional I agree with your points about neurological development. However, in this particular case the disparities are less strong than one might normally think. The girl for one is remarkably mature and very focused with regard to her goals in life. Also these two people have a great deal in common. It's uncanny really. They have the same interests, values, life goals, even their ways of thinking and personality are very similar.
 
I don't think 18 and mid-30s are compatible in maturity (either in physical brain development or in life experience), life experiences, or really much of anything that would lead to a successful relationship. I too would question the 18-year-old's decision-making skills. I would also question the older man's decision-making skills, if he is unable to see the problems that this sort of disparity creates. Not a mix for a successful relationship, if you ask me.

Age gaps in general do not have to be a problem. But when you're dealing with an adolescent, who still has not fully developed (and the brain and way of thinking do continue to change noticeably up to about the age of 25), and an older adult, then to me the disparity is questionable.

And yeah, I have to agree that this would reflect badly upon him as a teacher. Regardless of whether or not anything illicit has happened, I think a lot of people will come to that conclusion and would not want their girls in a class with him.

Nerys Ghemor sums it up nicely.

As a medical professional I agree with your points about neurological development. However, in this particular case the disparities are less strong than one might normally think. The girl for one is remarkably mature and very focused with regard to her goals in life. Also these two people have a great deal in common. It's uncanny really. They have the same interests, values, life goals, even their ways of thinking and personality are very similar.

Could you be allowing your personal friendships to cloud your view of the situation?

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
 
Is it the age gap or the age that is the issue here?

Would we view it different if she was in her twenties and he in his forties? Would we view it different it was the other way around and the female was older than the male?

We may not like it, but it is their choice how to live their lifes. It might work, it might not the same could be said if their was no age difference or only a couple of years difference.
 
I think it's more the age than the age gap. If they were, say, 28 and 45, it would be very different.

Also, I have to say that it feels creepy that he knew her from when she was a little child.
 
Could you be allowing your personal friendships to cloud your view of the situation?

That is precisely what I am worried about. I feel that these two are being critised quite harshly for their feelings and how they are dealing with them. Until now and given their specific circumstances I just haven't been able to see the slightest suggestion of anything untoward. However, if I were consulted about an adolescent patient with this kind of relationship status I know I would be quite concerned about it. Ultimately though there would be nothing one would do about it unless there were concrete evidence of something sinister going on. And so far nothing could be further from the truth at least as far as I know.

In the end they can be as right for each other as anyone could want. The age thing means they will face prejudice for many years to come.
 
However, if I were consulted about an adolescent patient with this kind of relationship status I know I would be quite concerned about it. Ultimately though there would be nothing one would do about it unless there were concrete evidence of something sinister going on. And so far nothing could be further from the truth at least as far as I know.

And there is your answer.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
 
However, if I were consulted about an adolescent patient with this kind of relationship status I know I would be quite concerned about it. Ultimately though there would be nothing one would do about it unless there were concrete evidence of something sinister going on. And so far nothing could be further from the truth at least as far as I know.

And there is your answer.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

But it's not that simple. In that generic clinical situation I lack context to make a more informed decision and I'm basing my concern on the experience I have had in general with situations like this. But with my friend I have context that puts the story in a somewhat different light.
 
Is it the age gap or the age that is the issue here?

Would we view it different if she was in her twenties and he in his forties?

If she were in her mid to late 20s, then yes, I would trust that she has made her decision from a mature and rational standpoint. Earlier 20s, possibly. But teens? No.

Would we view it different it was the other way around and the female was older than the male?
If the male was 18, no, I would not see it any differently than I see it with the female being 18.


And admittedly I am bothered by the fact that he knew her and possibly had feelings for her as a minor. Even if there were no illicit activities, to my mind there is an inherent abuse of authority in that sort of scenario (i.e. the real reason we have statutory rape laws--not for a 19 and a 17 year old getting it on, and whose maturity levels are fairly on par with each other, but for cases where it is clearly an adult and a minor). This can't have come out of nowhere the instant she turned 18. It does seem to me there was an either an undue psychological influence while she was a minor, to bring this on, or spectacularly bad judgment and--I am sorry to say--immaturity (as opposed to the OP's assessment) on her part, and on his part.
 
But it's not that simple. In that generic clinical situation I lack context to make a more informed decision and I'm basing my concern on the experience I have had in general with situations like this. But with my friend I have context that puts the story in a somewhat different light.

It is that simple. You've said what your judgment would be in a professional context based on empirical evidence from similar situations and have stated that you're concerned that in this situation your personal feelings are clouding your objectivity. It sounds like your having what Dr. Robert B. Cialdini (a well know psychologist) calls a heart of hearts attack. You already know this is a really bad idea but don't want to call out a friend. This is why medical and mental health professionals don't treat family and friends.

My advice – stay out of it completely.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
 
And admittedly I am bothered by the fact that he knew her and possibly had feelings for her as a minor. Even if there were no illicit activities, to my mind there is an inherent abuse of authority in that sort of scenario (i.e. the real reason we have statutory rape laws--not for a 19 and a 17 year old getting it on, and whose maturity levels are fairly on par with each other, but for cases where it is clearly an adult and a minor). This can't have come out of nowhere the instant she turned 18. It does seem to me there was an either an undue psychological influence while she was a minor, to bring this on, or spectacularly bad judgment and--I am sorry to say--immaturity (as opposed to the OP's assessment) on her part, and on his part.

Well I can only take their word for not having acted on their feelings when she was younger. It's also slightly hazy as to when they "fell in love". From what they say it seems that they came to somekind of understanding, where they just let things be and then once she was an adult she could decide. According to them she took the first steps towards dating. He also appealed to her several times to concider if this is what she really wanted. But she is quite insistant. The idea that he manipulated her doesn't ring true. Could this have happened at a subtle level? I do remember him complementing her when she was younger, but I did that too with no armorous intent of any kind. I also don't think it so inconcievable that she might be outright attracted to him. He might be much older than her but he is a good looking bloke.

The key question is is she at risk with him? If what they say is true then I do not think that that is the case. Also, what would you do to break them up? There is no reasonable way to do that. Besides I think she would be devasted if she couldn't see him anymore.
 
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