Crossover or The Federation?

[Timewalker]

Crossover is a nice tale, though not as epic as it seemed IMO.

Federation is a classic - canon be damned

Federation is more true to canon than that ridiculous First Contact movie. I can easily imagine the Zephram Cochrane of "Metamorphosis" and Federation being the same individual. The drunken fool in the movie is nothing but a fake.

I won't give away the ending of Federation, but it makes me CRY. Every. single. time. Yes, it's THAT good.

 

[Christopher]

^It was true to canon as of the time it was written, of course, but an ongoing canon is bound to reinterpret things as it moves forward. People who use "canon" as if it were some kind of inviolable gospel (which is its original, religious use) are overlooking how dynamic and mutable any fictional canon truly is.

And though I wish they'd cast an actor who more closely resembled Glenn Corbett, I have no problem at all with the idea that a) the truth behind a historical figure was less glamorous than the subsequent legend, which is usually the case; b) Cochrane needed to grow into the person history remembers rather than being perfect from the day he was born; and c) the person Cochrane was in 2063 was not exactly the same as the person he was two hundred and five years later. A person can change a lot in just a few decades -- there's no telling how much they could change in over two centuries.

 

[Gotham Central]

^It was true to canon as of the time it was written, of course, but an ongoing canon is bound to reinterpret things as it moves forward. People who use "canon" as if it were some kind of inviolable gospel (which is its original, religious use) are overlooking how dynamic and mutable any fictional canon truly is.

And though I wish they'd cast an actor who more closely resembled Glenn Corbett, I have no problem at all with the idea that a) the truth behind a historical figure was less glamorous than the subsequent legend, which is usually the case; b) Cochrane needed to grow into the person history remembers rather than being perfect from the day he was born; and c) the person Cochrane was in 2063 was not exactly the same as the person he was two hundred and five years later. A person can change a lot in just a few decades -- there's no telling how much they could change in over two centuries.

I'm sorry, you really cannot reconcile the crotchety drunken OLDER lout that we saw in First Contact, with the mild mannered somewhat earnest guy that we meet in TOS. In fact, First Contact pretty much invalidates "Metamorphosis" since Chochrane ought to know plenty about the future. His first question to Kirk ought to have been, "do you know Picard and what happened to the Borg?" (actually this creates YET ANOTHER moment where someone could have given a heads up about the Borg to Starfleet.)

What I like about Federation is that it better fit the facts and details that we knew about Trek's 21st century and Cochrane than First Contact did. the authors took great care to ensure that all the details that we knew about the era were included in the story. The writers of First Contact were not nearly as careful...or practical from my perspective (he built an FTL ship out of spare parts from a missile in the immediate aftermath of a nuclear war...REALLY?...Those people looked like they ought to have been scrounging around for food an supplies, not worrying about anew form of space travel).

 

[Christopher]

I'm sorry, you really cannot reconcile the crotchety drunken OLDER lout that we seen in First Contact, with the mild mannered somewhat earnest guy that we meet in TOS.

That we meet two hundred years later. And think of all the transformative experiences he went through in the interim. Meeting a starship crew from the future and learning their vision of the man he would become; experiencing first contact with the Vulcans; seeing humanity rise from the depths of war into a new era of peace and enlightenment; founding a colony on Alpha Centauri and (apparently) spending much of his life there; then going off into space to die and being captured by the Companion, rejuvenated, and stuck by himself on a tiny planetoid for 150 years. It's implausible that anyone wouldn't be changed to a profound degree by such a long and eventful life.

Is it really any more implausible than the brash, reckless, womanizing cadet Jean-Luc Picard growing up to become the serious, disciplined, reserved starship captain we met 37 years later? Or Rom's evolution from a typical if dimwitted Ferengi to a gifted engineer and social reformer?

In fact, First Contact pretty much invalidates "Metamorphosis" since Chochrane ought to know plenty about the future. His first question to Kirk ought to have been, "do you know Picard and what happened to the Borg?" (actually this creates YET ANOTHER moment where someone could have given a heads up about the Borg to Starfleet.)

When two hundred and fifty years old you reach, remember so well you will not. Seriously, how well can you remember things you learned just 20 years ago? And there's no telling what being alone for 150 years in such a limited environment can do to a person's mind.

And ENT: "Regeneration" established that Cochrane did try to warn people about the Borg, but they wouldn't believe him, so he gave up. He probably convinced himself it had never happened.

What I like about Federation is that it better fit the facts and details that we knew about Trek's 21st century and Cochrane than First Contact did.

It fits them differently, and in a more straightforward and obvious way. But there's value in defying the obvious. As a student of history, I recognize that what we think we "know" about a past era is likely to be very different from the way it actually was, filtered through generations of interpretation and evolving cultural narrative. So a story set in a past era that confounds our expectations about that era is more credible to me than one that just confirms them.

And then there's simply the more fundamental principle that stories require tension and conflict. If Cochrane had been the saint that Picard's crew expected, if he'd been together and helpful every step of the way, there would've been no tension and it would've been boring and short.

 

[RPJOB]

And then there's simply the more fundamental principle that stories require tension and conflict. If Cochrane had been the saint that Picard's crew expected, if he'd been together and helpful every step of the way, there would've been no tension and it would've been boring and short.

Exactly. City of the Edge of Forever is well remembered by the fans as one of the worst episodes because Edith Keeler was such a mean, contemptible old witch.

You don't have to make a character unlikeable just to create tension. That's just the easiest way to do it.

Federation is a great romp full of continuity porn and some very cool scenes. We see the Cochrane from Metamorphosis over a number of years but still recognizable. It's also nice to see the consequences of some of Kirk's actions, something that is lacking in most TOS & Movie era books and movies.

I found the TOS and 21st century parts of the book much more compelling than the TNG but the endings are great.

Crossover suffered too much from coincidence and ham fisted shoehorning or characters. A fun little rom but nowhere near as enjoyable as Federation. (Just how many people know Spock is on Romulus anyway? And how often can the Federation violate the Neutral Zone?)

 

[Christopher]

^I didn't say everyone had to agree with the way FC's writers chose to create conflict. I'm just saying what their reasoning was. The world is full of different points of view, so just because some people don't like or agree with a creative choice doesn't mean the creators had no right to make that choice. Some people prefer Cochrane as a pure, noble figure, while others don't mind learning that he started out more dissolute and needed to grow into that nobility. A matter of taste, not objective truth. As Star Trek fans we should be able to respect opinions that differ from our own.

Personally, I like both Federation and First Contact. There's nothing wrong with having two very different interpretations of the same idea; on the contrary, it makes for a richer experience than having just one.

 

[Brikar99]

Personally, I like both Federation and First Contact. There's nothing wrong with having two very different interpretations of the same idea; on the contrary, it makes for a richer experience than having just one.

Agreed. I always enjoy seeing how different people take similar ideas.

 

[shanejayell]

Besides, as a reader you can choose to ignore something if you don't like it. *shrug* And if you use DTI as a example, you could assume that both versions are valid in each other's timeline.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

I loved Crossover. I miss reading Michael Jan Friedman trek novels.

Too bad Crossover wasn't made a film instead of Generations.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I think it was written after GEN, actually.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Yep. Generations came out Nov 94 and Crossover Dec 95. Still, Crossover demonstrates a far better story that integrates the TOS and TNG crews. PLUS, involves the original enterprise (the bridge at least).

 

[Sci]

And though I wish they'd cast an actor who more closely resembled Glenn Corbett,

I'm sorry, you really cannot reconcile the crotchety drunken OLDER lout that we saw in First Contact,

Wherever one stands on whether or not ST:FC's depiction of Cochrane should have been more saintly, I cannot even begin to understand why anyone would pass up having the incomparable James Cromwell play him. Cromwell is one of the best and most prestigious actors in the industry; it would be the equivalent of turning down the chance to have Dame Judi Dench play M in a James Bond film.

 

[JD]

As for the debate about the FC versions of Cochrane, while the FC version might not be seem to be the same person as the Metamorphosis version, I thought that the references and his cameo in Enterprise seemed to imply that he did become more like the Metamorphosis version after he lived through the events of FC. I could easily see living through all of that bringing about some pretty drastic changes to a person's lifestyle.

 

[Christopher]

^Yeah, that was pretty much implied in First Contact itself, like when they quoted something wise that Cochrane would say years in the future. The idea was that getting a glimpse of the bright future the Enterprise crew represented helped reawaken Cochrane's idealism.