To be fair Sci said foreign lands those planets were Federation territory and they also let the colonists stay when they decided to leave the Federation.
Prime Directive, poorly written?
- Thread starter Deimos Anomaly
- Start date
To be fair Sci said foreign lands those planets were Federation territory and they also let the colonists stay when they decided to leave the Federation.
They took Cardassian colonies via treaty...
I'm sure those Cardassians weren't to thrilled to have their homes taken away.
Sounds like they stayed in the Maquis and got the better part of the deal.
Plus the Cardassians agreed to the treaty, thats kind of how they work both sides come up with it and agree to it.
And I'm also failing to see any connection between the treaty and the Prime Directive.
As I have argued elsewhere, I think that is a completely fair criticism of the United States. We, too, have a long and shameful history of warmongering, conquest, and imperialism. The Prime Directive is probably as much a response to American imperialism and neo-imperialism as to the British Empire.
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And I think U.S. neo-imperialism probably gives us some insight into why the PD is so strict even about seemingly benign things like mere contact or trade. Economics can be as effective a means of dominating foreign societies and bending them to your will as military conquest; why rule directly when a puppet government can run things day to day? The PD is a reaction both to formal military conquest and annexation, and to informal practices of economic and social domination.
Well, the Federation is isolationist -- when it comes to pre-warp cultures, at any rate. I think it's pretty clear that the Federation has some stringent laws in place to keep it from dominating newly-established warp cultures and other worlds that are less powerful than it.
And if people think any sort of involvement is imperialism, it can lead to greater tragedies. If the West didn't help a poor country that had just suffered Earthquake, would that be enlightened? Was it enlightened to allow the Rwanda genocide to occur?
I think the PD goes from reasonable to insane when Starfleet crews think that letting a civilization die out is better then interference.
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I would tend to agree, but I also think that doesn't negate the fact that coercion is not always military in nature, which is a wise insight of the PD's. Saving innocent worlds from extinction is the sort of thing where the PD should make exceptions; restricting things that can lead to coercion is a good thing on balance, however.
I think the problem with the PD is as the franchise went on, there were fewer and fewer episodes that presented it in a positive light. Who Watches the watchers and Patterns of Force were good episodes for showcasing why the PD was important.
By the time we got to Voyager and Enterprise, Archer and Janeway were willing to let entire civilizations die and say that is the moral thing to do. An episode like Dear Doctor made the concept of the PD just seem callous and against natural human compassion.
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Well, first up, I am a New Zealander and citizen of Australia, so I do appreciate my in-depth analysis, thanks.
Secondly, the arrival of the British decimated the indigenous cultures, across the planet- they will never be what they were. Some of the culture remains, yes, but there is no such thing as benign interference- the moment two cultures meet, both will be changed, forever.
So, instead of allowing humans to invent the warp drive, the Vulcans should have just come down and GIVEN it to us? Is that benign interference? Should they then have said: "Y'know, this emotions thing you got going on, you know what's better than that? Logic!" Because, y'know, they are the superior culture, so we should do things their way. Or maybe we should be allowed to do things our way- maybe in doing so, we'd actually have a unique understanding of the universe, invent things the Vulcans would never have thought of, have a unique culture. And it's not the Federation's place to override the imperatives of other cultures- and they don't have a choice in the matter. If you show up on a planet and introduce them to the concept of a phaser their world will be changed FOREVER, whether you want it to or not, it will- it's not a choice, it's just a thing that will happen. The PD is designed to prevent this. There is no benign interference.
Secondly, the arrival of the British decimated the indigenous cultures, across the planet- they will never be what they were. Some of the culture remains, yes, but there is no such thing as benign interference- the moment two cultures meet, both will be changed, forever.
So, instead of allowing humans to invent the warp drive, the Vulcans should have just come down and GIVEN it to us? Is that benign interference? Should they then have said: "Y'know, this emotions thing you got going on, you know what's better than that? Logic!" Because, y'know, they are the superior culture, so we should do things their way. Or maybe we should be allowed to do things our way- maybe in doing so, we'd actually have a unique understanding of the universe, invent things the Vulcans would never have thought of, have a unique culture. And it's not the Federation's place to override the imperatives of other cultures- and they don't have a choice in the matter. If you show up on a planet and introduce them to the concept of a phaser their world will be changed FOREVER, whether you want it to or not, it will- it's not a choice, it's just a thing that will happen. The PD is designed to prevent this. There is no benign interference.
I think the P.D also looks hypocritical when the Feds (or US as an example) takes action to give aid (military or otherwise) to one power or culture, but will avoid acting to help others.
I pointed out the interfering to help the Cardassians defend against the Klingons.
Ordinarily it would understandable why they would help. But given the number of times the Feds have allowed other cultures to be conquered, and stated the P.D as a holy directive for it, it seems odd at times.
The does seem to be a danger of becoming callous at other people suffering because of it. Especially when you're eating food out of replicator and living in luxury.
In this particular case, the Federation was pro-active. They warned the Cardassian of an invasion before they (the Cardassians) knew there was one.
As far as I know, Sisko gave Dukat some information and then some instructions on where to meet him, but no direct request for help came from the Cardassian government. It was mostly on the Federation side--or Sisko's.
It seemed like the Federation deliberately reached out in the Cardassia/Klingon conflict to prevent a foreign government or political party from falling.
When Starfleet's original attitude was 'not to get involved'. I don't know how close that was to violating the P.D.
As far as I know, Sisko gave Dukat some information and then some instructions on where to meet him, but no direct request for help came from the Cardassian government. It was mostly on the Federation side--or Sisko's.
It seemed like the Federation deliberately reached out in the Cardassia/Klingon conflict to prevent a foreign government or political party from falling.
When Starfleet's original attitude was 'not to get involved'. I don't know how close that was to violating the P.D.
There's no benign anything. Whatever a culture does all on its own will also have a profound effect on the goings-on; the only way to avoid "effect" is to establish a perfect equilibrium or steady state and then cease everything. The aftermaths of mass suicides would be a good example...
Interfering may ruin a native culture. But the native culture will also ruin the native culture, unless it's utterly stagnated already and cannot be ruined further. Things move forward regardless of interference or lack thereof; one might just as well interfere in a manner one feels beneficial for the future, as some sort of a future will inevitably come to pass and replace the present.
Timo Saloniemi
Archer is not subject to the PD, which hasn't been written yet, though he expresses the desire for such a principle. While it may seem callous to deny the cure for the disease to the Valakians, what about the Menk, the other species that is evolving to be the dominant in that culture and has natural immunity to it? This is a dilemna and I personally don't see an easy, wholely satisfactory way out of it. Either choice seems bad in some ways - let an entire species die out from a disease of genetic decay, or deny another species their chance to become the dominant (and eventually only sentient) species on their planet.
Or perhaps the disease would kill many but not all, and those who survive would have other genetic advantages for that race.
It seems to me if we ever do get something like warp AND if we find a galaxy filled with intelligent species evolving toward it for themselves (much less likely that FTL travel it seems to me but never mind) then something like the PD would be very wise, perhaps even necessary.
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