Vulcan and politics

[RoJoHen]

Some of my favorite things about the original series of movies were the scenes at Starfleet and UFP Headquarters. I loved seeing the political situation as it related to things like the Genesis project and the assassination of Gorkon.

At the end of ST09, the thing I was really most intrigued by was the Vulcan species and what they were going to do in the face of near-extinction. While I realize that the movies should be about the Enterprise and her crew, I would love to see more of the political landscape of the Federation and how it will differ now that the Vulcans can't afford to be major players.

Do you think we'll get any of that in the next movie?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I suspect the fallout from Vulcan's destruction will be seen in a personal and emotional way via Spock, rather than in a bigger, astropolitical landscape kind of way.

But, it could very well happen. X-Men: First Class featured the Cuban Missile Crisis!

 

[sonak]

I hope we see this, too. Vulcan is supposed to be a major player within the Federation. Their loss should have a devastating and lasting effect.

 

[RPJOB]

I Don't expect many major changes. There's still the Vulcan colony planets. Bob Orci has said that the 10,000 survivors figure referred only to those save from Vulcan itself. That doesn't explain Spock's belief that the Vulcan's are an endangered species but he was traumatized at the time. I wouldn't count out seeing T'Pau, T'Pring, Sybok or any of the other Vulcans we've met. If the story needs them then they'll survive.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I thought a good possible plot for a sequel to ST2009 could have been the plight of Vulcan "refugees"/survivors looking for a new home world.

This film's antagonist could have been a misguided Vulcan leader ("A" Vulcan leader, not necessarily "The" Vulcan leader) who goes too far in his attempts to secure a world for his people, perhaps committing some acts of violence in the process, and the Enterprise is called in to try to stop him.

This antagonist could be shown in a sympathetic light (at least his mission to find his people a world to live on could have been shown to be a just cause), but his means by which he tries to achieve his goal would perhaps be highly questionable and not justifiable.

Benedict Cumberbatch could have played that Vulcan antagonist who is desperate to do anything to find a world for his people.

 

[Sky]

At the end of ST09, the thing I was really most intrigued by was the Vulcan species and what they were going to do in the face of near-extinction. While I realize that the movies should be about the Enterprise and her crew, I would love to see more of the political landscape of the Federation and how it will differ now that the Vulcans can't afford to be major players.

Do you think we'll get any of that in the next movie?

I would love to see that but I'm not holding my breath. Not enough xplosions and chase scenes and close combat in it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Just for that, JJ's gonna put in a race through the Federation council chambers, in dune buggies.

 

[RoJoHen]

I'm not saying it needs to be the focus of the film, but I think Trek works better when you have a good idea of the larger backdrop of the galaxy. In the original movies, the Enterprise's actions had direct consequences to the political landscape. I would just like that type of thing conveyed in new movies with regards to the Vulcans.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

We might get some crumbs but to do the topic justice would require a TV series.

 

[Yevetha]

Why don't the Vulcans have colony worlds?

 

[RoJoHen]

Who says they don't? They vast majority of their species still probably lived on the homeworld.

 

[Yevetha]

Then they should have more then 10000 survivors.

 

[Franklin]

Then they should have more then 10000 survivors.

I agree, by the simple mathematics (dare I say, logic?) of it. There would have to be more than 10,000 Vulcans left in the entire Alpha Quadrant.

Vulcans probably have embassies and other social and economic organizations on every Federation planet and on many non-member planets. A quick count at Memory Alpha shows 26 Federation members. Just in terms of embassy personnel and business, trade, and science organizations and missions alone, there would have to be well over 10,000 Vulcans left around the Federation. Unless we are to believe that all remaining Federation planets combined averaged a population of only about 400 Vulcans, each.

I think it's wise of Orci to back away from 10,000 as the numberr of surviving Vulcans galaxy-wide. It's dramatic in the context of the movie, but practically, it's unrealistic.

To that end, if there were any political conflict that had to do with Vulcan, it may have to do with the logic of even creating a new home world and the viability of Vulcans as a single entity without one. Do all the surviving Vulcans move to this new home world? Do they just assimilate where they are? There are arguments in favor of each. Can Vulcan as a planet ever be viable? What about as a planet versus as a people? Can the remaining Vulcans be of more service to the Federation without a home world? Maybe at this point the philosophy is worth preserving over creating a new planet. Would it be a disservice to the Federation to essentially pull out of it to focus on repopulating a new home world? After all, aren't the odds of ever establishing another viable Vulcan homeworld quite long? Is it logical to even try, or is it just trying to fulfill a sentimental wish? Or do they deserve to try as a people? After all, it would take generations of gains without any setbacks for Vulcan to be a major player in the Federation again. Long odds. None of that is popcorn-munching movie stuff, but they are real questions that would generate real conflicts.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm wondering what Spock Prime's role will be in the rebuilding of Vulcan. Will he lead the colony he helped found? Does anyone other than Kirk and Scotty know his true identity? (There is a deleted scene, AFAIK, where Sarek finds out.)

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm wondering what Spock Prime's role will be in the rebuilding of Vulcan. Will he lead the colony he helped found? Does anyone other than Kirk and Scotty know his true identity? (There is a deleted scene, AFAIK, where Sarek finds out.)

There's a deleted scene where Spock Prime walks past Sarek, who gives a strange "what the heck?" -type look, but that's it.

I imagine important people know who Spock Prime is - and that he played a big part in convincing Starfleet to let Kirk keep command of the Enterprise.

I was very eagerly awaiting Greg Cox's "The Hazard of Concealing" in summer 2010, which would have dealt with various groups trying to exploit Spock's future knowledge, but Bad Robot stepped in and had it (and the other three nuTrek novels) cancelled

 

[RPJOB]

How much, if any, knowledge of the future should OldSpock share? Keeping technological improvements secret makes sense although he's already tossed that out by showing how you can beam yourself across light years and even hit a starship travelling at warp.

What abut dangers? Nomad, V'Ger, the flying parasites, the dikromium cloud creature, the Doomsday Machine all killed many people, in some cases billions. Should they all die just to keep the knowledge of the future secret?

 

[Sci]

How much, if any, knowledge of the future should OldSpock share?

None. This is a completely new, divergent timeline, and, as such, Spock Prime has no obligation to keep his knowledge of future events from the Federation. Doing so will not preserve a history that hasn't yet been written.

 

[UFO]

How much, if any, knowledge of the future should OldSpock share?

None. This is a completely new, divergent timeline, and, as such, Spock Prime has no obligation to keep his knowledge of future events from the Federation. Doing so will not preserve a history that hasn't yet been written.

Your comment "None" seems to be at odds with your following sentence? Anyway, the writers don't need to deal with anything in the old universe unless it’s urgent and implausible that it wouldn't happen due to Nero's arrival. Even then they could assume someone else dealt with it as the solution would now be a "cakewalk". As in: Kirk: "How did you get on with the Doomsday Machine?". Captain Someone: "Piece of cake".

Having said that, it does strike me as a bit ironic that they created a new universe to give themselves more freedom but then included the idea that the universe was trying to heal itself. Ie. get back on the prime universe track. Of course that's only where convenient. Vulcan is unlikely to pop out of a white-hole, none the worse for wear, I'm guessing.

 

[Sci]

How much, if any, knowledge of the future should OldSpock share?

None. This is a completely new, divergent timeline, and, as such, Spock Prime has no obligation to keep his knowledge of future events from the Federation. Doing so will not preserve a history that hasn't yet been written.

Your comment "None" seems to be at odds with your following sentence?

Whoops! Mis-read the preceding sentence. I thought it had asked how much information Spock Prime should keep secret. My bad.

 

[horatio83]

Some of my favorite things about the original series of movies were the scenes at Starfleet and UFP Headquarters. I loved seeing the political situation as it related to things like the Genesis project and the assassination of Gorkon.

At the end of ST09, the thing I was really most intrigued by was the Vulcan species and what they were going to do in the face of near-extinction. While I realize that the movies should be about the Enterprise and her crew, I would love to see more of the political landscape of the Federation and how it will differ now that the Vulcans can't afford to be major players.

Do you think we'll get any of that in the next movie?

No, because this is material that is more suited for the small screen. While STXI dealt fairly well with being crammed storywise, i.e. the 24th century background, the cut-out Klingons, Romulans and Vulcans, everybody getting to know each other and so on it didn't deal with it as masterfully as FC.
They were basically the background for a simple coming of age story whereas in FC the Borg acted as contrasts to the bright future that is about to come and Cochrane was actually a real character.
So yeah, if O&K wanna tell simple stories they might wanna stick to something simpler. No point of putting Rommies and Vulcans in your flick when they are totally arbitrary, when you do not actually say anything about them.