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The third season of Voyager kicks heavy duty ass

I couldn't get past ep 3 of Mercy... that main character made me want to :scream:.

Teacake and Guy... you two crack me up. :lol:

I don't get into medical dramas... and I THOUGHT I was burning out on cop dramas until I stayed up late last night doing my taxes, watching "Rizzoli & Isles" on youtube. Its a TNT show I'd never heard of, and its fun. :bolian:
 
For the 30th Anniversary we had two tribute episodes

DSN's "Trials and Tribble-ations"
VOY's "Flashback"

One is a valentine to the fans the other not as much of a tribute, after all they would appear to kill off a character who appears at the end of TUC.
 
That is where Adm Hawthorne is now JanewayRulz!, in Rizzoli and Isles Land.

I am not a cop drama person at all, would much rather watch medical. After I finished all the sci fi and friends series in the world.
 
I've been watching Hill Street Blues Recently.

You know, what everything else is derivative of.

Origin of the species.

Awful hair.
 
Again, what's your point?
Also, Janeway to my knowledge did not prior to this particular episode engage in a mind-meld, and she certainly didn't know that the memories would become disorganized, so her shock (while perhaps admittedly a bit an overreaction) is more or less understandable.
And as for the parasite... well, it was a way to get us to see what Tuvok's early years were like.
Also, I take it you skipped the part where he talked about his disdain for Humans and SF as a whole?

="Flashback" pales 1000 times in comparison to "Trials and Tribble-ations". The show goes out of its way to make a special episode as a tribute to TOS and makes an episode about an alien parasite with added technobabble, something is wrong. Janeway did not meet Sulu or anyone on that ship, she met some made up construct in Tuvok's brain. It was soulless garbage.

Who says it was supposed to be funny in the first place?

What do you think this episode was aiming to do? It was a comedy episode, clear as day. The only thing was it wasn't funny. You're not very perceptive. Is that what you do when comedy episodes fail to be funny? Pretend that they weren't supposed to be comedy episodes in order to make them seem better in your head? Slightly odd.


Bland in your perception. They revealed their 'faces' literally to Tom and Torres after all just before shooting them, and I thought that because they were a practical unknown was what made them interesting.

If your show is about a ship stranded thousands of lightyears from home and the best you can do is a B plot about some mystery aliens who we never even get to know, something is pretty wrong. More mediocre season 3 pablum.

Let's see... it was a civil way and yet it wasn't a war.
Make up your mind, will you?

Who said it wasn't a war? The Q were involved in a civil war, that doesn't mean it was anything like the American civil war. Q just chose to present it that way to Janeway so she could understand something visually that she otherwise couldn't. Maybe you should rewatch this episode.

Tom putting a gun to the opposition leaders head is not exactly ridiculous...I agree it was 'simplistic' but we are talking about a TV show.
It's not as if TNG, DS9 or even ENT or TOS don't suffer from this very problem.

It was ridiculous since they dropped the "vague representation" aspect and acted like what we were seeing was real meaning human characters could interact...when its obvious humans have no chance against Q. It was simplistic and lazy and by saying "its just TV", you're really grasping at excuses to defend this episode.


'Shallow' in your opinion. I thought it was interesting actually, in a creepy sort of way (especially when both Janeway and Neelix roamed the ship without knowing what the heck happened in the first place).

Even if you enjoyed, it was still shallow. If you'd like to explain how it was not a shallow episode then why don't you.
Perhaps you'd like to outline all the emotional and story depth you encountered in the show that saved it from being shallow?

Ok... since this episode effectively took place inside Janeway's brain, lets give it some thought.
The alien who wanted to feed off Janeways consciousness needed to create a scenario that made her think she was 'dead' so she can 'let go' and go with him.
The mixing-mashing of time loop and other elements are more or less equivalent to a dream, all ending on a same note:

And yet its all such obviously hollow drek - a mishmash of well worn sci-fi elements from previous episodes that were received well in an attempt to keep the viewer's attention despite the entire lack of character insight or emotional depth. The time loops are particularly incongrious and are the most blatantly pointless part of the whole episode. Mashing all these sci-fi elements together randomly is like like jingling some keys above a baby to keep him occupied.

Janeway's death.
Also, on her fantasizing about her crew giving long-winded speeches - the last time I checked, all of that was a byproduct of the alien's manipulation - an elaborate illusion HE specifically created.
I would surmise that Janeway's memories provided him with enough context so he can concoct that scenario in the first place.

If Janeway had actually been present at her own wake and witnessed crewmembers talking about how close they'd grown - that would have given true insight into the relationships on Voyager. But its all fake, so that's 5 minutes spent watching a scene that thanks to how the story ends, means absolutely nothings. Its shameless, hollow and overdone - just like this entire episode.

Oh and something else that sucks the story - Taylor managed to come up with a plot concept 10 times more interesting than what we got (crewmember contracts the phage) in a throwaway line in a pointless scene made for no other reason than for the "cool factor".

You can say you enjoy this episode, but don't try to convince me its remotely well written, constructed or suitable for this show in any way or form. "Unity" came only two episodes later and proved that there was ability in that writer's room to come up with wildly original ideas that didn't need to be derivative, messy and pointless like "Coda". Unfortunately we were at Voyager's lowest ebb here and things wouldn't get better until after the triumverate of terror - Rise/Darkling/Favorite Son.

It was an ok episode.

Blood Fever wasn't the worst abomination they came off with this season.

I said the episode 'Favorite Son' was dull in certain areas but there were others I thought were interesting.

It was one of the worst episodes in Voyager and you'll struggle to find it well reviewed anywhere. This was TNG season 1 level crap.

I do have a critical eye... I'm just wondering if you have the capacity for critical thinking given that your opinion is extremely biased and apparently just love to push it as something that's 'globally shared' or 'commonly accepted'.

Not globally but you'll frequently find Darkling to be a poorly reviewed episode. Braga and Menosky often did great work together on Voyager, this was possibly their worst.


Having said all that, I had a craving for watching each and every one of those episodes regardless of their 'shortcomings' because in the end, there is an underlying interest that makes me want to watch them and from an overall point of view, I find them interesting than most of DS9.

Some of us look at episodes more critically and how it was constructed/written/characters fleshed out. For example with Coda, I look at how derivative it was and how it filled up large parts with meaningless sci-fi scenarios and hollow, meaningless characterisation. You simply watch it and see if you enjoy it or not without giving any kind of deeper thought.

I have my way and you have your way, but you can't really convince me something is well written or constructed when it simply wasn't. Season 3 WAS one of the poorest seasons in all of Trek filled with half baked ideas, well worn Trek cliches, technobable, poor writing, derivative ideas and it featured the writers at their absolute worst until that good stretch at the end. It was Voyager at its lowest, lacking the semi-cohesion of the first two seasons and the relatively good writing of the later seasons.
 
You Will Fail said:
Janeway did not meet Sulu or anyone on that ship, she met some made up construct in Tuvok's brain. It was soulless garbage
Poking around in Tuvok's memories like that is a smart science fiction concept, certainly not "soulless garbage"

To whine that Janeway and Sulu didn't "actually" meet is missing the point. For once, they avoid the tired time travel cliche and fans still complain!
 
Poking around in Tuvok's memories like that is a smart science fiction concept, certainly not "soulless garbage"

The concept is good, mixing that up with "alien parasite" and adding in scenes like Sulu suddenly "seeing" Janeway drag the episode down.

You_Will_Fail, just as a benchmark, what do you think of VOY: 'Drone'?

I like a lot of Voyager episodes, just see my top 30 Episodes video in my sig. You'll see I feel Voyager offered plenty of great stories and concepts well well executed just not many in season 3 before episode 21 and onwards.
 
You haven't watched it?

Where is the fainting emoticon..

Really, you've already experienced the Kes-less hell that is seasons 4, 5, and 6. Why not suck it up and be a completist.

A good question which needs an honest answer.

To be honest, I was so p****d off with "Fury" that I decided that "enough is enough". Mind you, I actually did stop watching Voyager after "The Gift" and didn't watch it for nearly two seasons but for some reason I changed my mind and started watching it again in the end of season 5. Meanwhile I spent some money on borrowing the tapes with the episodes from season 4 and 5 which I'd missed to catch up with the ongoing story.

After "Fury", it was the scenario of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" so I decided that enough is enough, not to mention that I became a relly nasty person when it came to debating this issue which was not so good for me.

I actually didn't plan to watch "Endgame" either. I decided to watch it one minute before the episode started on TV because I wanted to see the homecoming and afterwards it felt like I had made another big mistake. What a dissapointment! :ack:

However, time heals a broken heart as they say in many songs and that's not impossible that I will re-watch season 4, 5 and 6 again and also watch season 7. But since none of my channels are airing Voyager now, I'll have to wait or buy them on DVD.

But I will never, ever watch "The Gift" or "Fury" again!

As for the fainting emoticon, I guess that you have to settle with Eeky! :eek:
 
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I like a lot of Voyager episodes, just see my top 30 Episodes video in my sig. You'll see I feel Voyager offered plenty of great stories and concepts well well executed just not many in season 3 before episode 21 and onwards.

Sure. I was just seeing whether 'Drone' - which I think was excellent - was your cup of tea.

Is your list in any order, e.g. is 'Barge of the Dead' your favourite VOY episode, given it's #2?
 
Poking around in Tuvok's memories like that is a smart science fiction concept, certainly not "soulless garbage"

The concept is good, mixing that up with "alien parasite" and adding in scenes like Sulu suddenly "seeing" Janeway drag the episode down.
Whats wrong with Sulu seeing Janeway? The whole mind-meld is a dreamscape, and Tuvok's being brain damaged. If that's not an excuse for the kind of bizarre turns that dreams and nightmares often take, I don't know what is.

Nor do I see the problem with the alien parasite. Masquerading as a memory, it's another neat sci-fi concept, IMO.

Don't get me wrong, the episode wasn't perfect - Sulu's technobabbulant disabling of Kang's ship was unsatisfying, the timeline was messed up (events were explicitly months apart in STVI, seemingly much closer in "Flashback", and Valtane's death was an obvious mistake), but the issues I see with it and the ones you see are worlds apart.
 
"Sentient Syphilis"

It had been living invisibly inside Tuvok for 80 years.

it's a fair bet that the sentient syphilis gave as good as it took, that Tuvok was worse for ware with that sentient syphilis helping him through out his day making the hustle bustle of 24th century life a little easier...

however.

Consider his "final fate" in admiral Janeways timeline?

His [FONT=Arial]degenerative neurological condition?

is that a side effect of the sentient syphilis partying inside him for 80 years?

Or is it the effect of the sentient syphilis being ripped out of him so abrasively after it had made a peaceful home inside him for 80 years?

Or was it a minor hiccup that was coming no matter what, which the sentient syphilis could have easily dealt to if the doctor hadn't murdered it? not that Tuvoks quality of life in the sanitorium in the future seemed much different from how the sentient siphilus was tasking him during that flare up.

Of course we could also equally wonder what impact the affairs of Tuvix and Riddles might have had on the Vulcans future medical history?
[/FONT]
 
Sure. I was just seeing whether 'Drone' - which I think was excellent - was your cup of tea.

Is your list in any order, e.g. is 'Barge of the Dead' your favourite VOY episode, given it's #2?

Yep it goes from 30 to 1. As for Drone...I like it a lot, but its not among my very favorite VOY episodes.

Whats wrong with Sulu seeing Janeway? The whole mind-meld is a dreamscape, and Tuvok's being brain damaged. If that's not an excuse for the kind of bizarre turns that dreams and nightmares often take, I don't know what is.

Nor do I see the problem with the alien parasite. Masquerading as a memory, it's another neat sci-fi concept, IMO.

First of all he can't see her.....then he can and its all "surprised looks" and fade to commercial like its such a big deal....and then we have Sulu getting all crazy at Janeway asking "Who are you? What are you doing on my ship" but according to Tuvok its a sign that the deterioration in his brain has.....blah blah blah. Its all so stupid and soulless.

Really the central problem is that the plot isn't centered around the events of Star Trek VI at all.....the whole plot is trying to uncover the mystery of Tuvok's parasite/brain troubles or whatever. And that's just such an epically uninteresting plot so dryly written. It feels like another lame season 3 episode of Voyager instead of some fun or interesting revisiting of the TOS show or movies.
 
You haven't watched it?

Where is the fainting emoticon..

Really, you've already experienced the Kes-less hell that is seasons 4, 5, and 6. Why not suck it up and be a completist.

A good question which needs an honest answer.

To be honest, I was so p****d off with "Fury" that I decided that "enough is enough". Mind you, I actually did stop watching Voyager after "The Gift" and didn't watch it for nearly two seasons but for some reason I changed my mind and started watching it again in the end of season 5. Meanwhile I spent some money on borrowing the tapes with the episodes from season 4 and 5 which I'd missed to catch up with the ongoing story.

After "Fury", it was the scenario of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" so I decided that enough is enough, not to mention that I became a relly nasty person when it came to debating this issue which was not so good for me.

I actually didn't plan to watch "Endgame" either. I decided to watch it one minute before the episode started on TV because I wanted to see the homecoming and afterwards it felt like I had made another big mistake. What a dissapointment! :ack:

However, time heals a broken heart as they say in many songs and that's not impossible that I will re-watch season 4, 5 and 6 again and also watch season 7. But since none of my channels are airing Voyager now, I'll have to wait or buy them on DVD.

But I will never, ever watch "The Gift" or "Fury" again!

As for the fainting emoticon, I guess that you have to settle with Eeky! :eek:

Thanks for your answer Lynx.

I was thinking about this last night and I wonder if you could not rewrite history in a way which would make the Kes-less seasons enjoyable for you. You come up with a story that shows us Kes leaving the ship in Season 3 in a way that is satisfying and inspiring and doesn't involve any Furys in the future. And that's what you decide happened allowing you to watch what those left behind (the VOY crew) do with their lives once Kes is gone. I know I don't believe Tucker is dead after seeing TATV, I've just rewritten it in my mind. Works for me.
 
The novels say that he faked his death so that he could dress up as a Romulan and spy on the Star Empire.
 
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