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Nerys Ghemor's DS9 Episode Review Thread

^Agreed. I always saw it more as a failed attempt at Cardassian intrigue hence the 'central command's unacknowledged mistake'. It seems less of a terrorist plot than an known idealist undertaking a rather unlawful activity (to wit a coup) in order to effect his dream for Bajor. After all, Minster Jarro was honestly shocked when he was told about the Cardassian's involvement...

...although Colonel Day was the very model of a modern thuggish follower of fashion.
 
I dunno...I think Colonel Day turned out to be honorable in the end. I suspect he learned a lesson on the power of critical thinking, though...
 
I think that Nerys is right about the general, I'm thinking of the Bajorian officer who killed Li Nalas toward the end of the siege.

BTW since its been a few years since I saw the episodes, can anybody remember if Garak played a part in proceedings? Sounds like something he'd have a had in...
 
About General Krim: From the beginning, I think he comes across as a stand-up guy, who believes in serving the best good for Bajor...but he is contemptuous of the UFP at the time because--hey, where were you people when the Cardassians were oppressing us? Why should we help you, when you refused to help us?
 
And I can also understand that as well. For example Rush I've no doubt that those hailing from our ancestral Island homeland would be very skeptical of any outside force that had offer to help out after the Sassenach had sodded off. It's only natural especially if you're charged with defending the commonwealth of your people.

(Of course the British where nowhere as bad as the Cardassian Occupation of Bajor but its one of the closest (and safest) real life examples of what RL is talking about.)

And of course the UFP did want what was best for Bajor, they just had a different judgement system than either the Bajorans or many actual humans....but that's possibly a subject we shouldn't go too far into out of respect for NG's wishes for this thread.

(Also being a Sassenach myself I can call my lot that but don't get any ideas....:p)
 
"Cardassians"

(Oh, boy...Garak's worst outfit. Thank goodness that's not a forecast as to the content of the episode, for the most part.)

Please know from the start that while I really respect Una McCormack as a writer, I simply cannot draw the same conclusions that she did from this episode, when she wrote The Never-Ending Sacrifice. And that is a good thing: this one definitely makes you think.

From the very beginning, we know that something is very, very wrong with Rugal, that he--a teenager--would actually bite someone. Something about his upbringing is very much not right. And I guess I approach this like Cardassian literature: someone is guilty. We need to know who it is. Unfortunately, it's Dukat who makes the correct point here, which is not good considering what we'll find out about Dukat...

There are definitely some security leaks aboard DS9--both Garak and Quark, now that we know

It seems to me that Proka is raising his child to hate Cardassians. While I think historical accuracy is important, if it's crossed the line into instilling self-loathing, failure to deal adequately with bullying, or physical abuse, as the freighter captain alleged, that is completely unacceptable. And to me, we at least have evidence of verbal and psychological abuse, judging from Proka saying, "They won't hurt you--they're humans, not Cardassians." And then we find out that he's been taught it's something bad to be a Cardassian.

Now, did anyone hear any results from a physical or psychological exam, which I would have expected as part of a thorough investigation? We have a brief allusion to finding "no evidence" of the freighter captain's claims, but if the claims of physical abuse were indeed dispelled (possible) that does not rule out the psychological abuse for which I think we saw sufficient evidence right onscreen. Not to mention what a thorough psychological exam would've revealed!

Something that is interesting about this episode is trying to figure out what Garak's motivation here: getting back at Dukat, or helping the children. Admittedly I tend to be on the skeptical side and I think he's just getting back at Dukat...except for that moment when he appears genuinely shocked and saddened by the Cardassian orphans. That was one emotion that I believed to be genuine.

As for O'Brien...he shouldn't have made that really awful, racist remark. But does Keiko not realize she engaged in her own form of racism by assuming Rugal would automatically like Cardassian food, which he is not at all accustomed to, and probably taught to hate? :( At least we did see O'Brien have to realize it was wrong. And I wonder if part of him was remembering Glinn Daro.

Then Pa'Dar enters the picture and we get into a really tricky dilemma where neither option is good. If there's one thing I think is true about Pa'Dar, it's that he truly cares for his son, though he's (understandably) idealistic about the psychological damage Rugal has suffered. And he blames himself horribly for what happened. When he sees Rugal, his eyes and features almost remind me of Tekeny Ghemor. You can see how terrible he feels. And he is willing to accept Sisko's decision--to take that risk even knowing that Bajor and the Federation are allied. Politics just don't matter to him and it seems to me he's willing to do anything for his son.

Morally, I don't think sending Rugal back to Cardassian territory is right. Going from a free world to an oppressed one isn't right and should be opposed. The Cardassian Union as it exists during the DS9 era is not a good place--one that tortures its own citizens. And Rugal in particular would be a particularly likely victim.

Yet to my mind, sending him back to Proka wouldn't have been acceptable either given the obvious evidence of psychological abuse.

However...I think there's a solution that could have worked, but it rests on the fact that Pa'Dar is willing to do anything without regard for his political career or any other matter of personal reputation. I think if Rugal was his only son, and his wife was killed in the attack, he could have been convinced to take up residence in Federation or Bajoran territory to raise his son. That would have ensured both a father who actually loved his son unconditionally, and an environment where Rugal would not have to fear torture by the authorities.

(Set glitch: Why were the Bajoran/Cardassian computer displays in the orphanage in English while Garak was reading them?)

From a character standpoint, we see our first flash of the darker, more mature Bashir, when he shuts down the engines of the runabout and pushes Garak to answer his questions. I'm sure the power of that scene influenced how his character developed.

And of course we have some awesome acting from Marc Alaimo. "Oh, think of the children!" Oh, how slimy he comes off there. Very well done!
 
I agree that the best solution would've been to have Rugal live with his real dad (who did, indeed, seem like a genuinely caring father, and whose portrayal in The Never-Ending Sacrifice I like a lot), but not on Cardassia. I think something that allowed his Bajoran foster parents (who I also think genuinely cared about Rugal and didn't see him as a Cardassian any more, yet because of their hate for Cardassians basically taught Rugal to hate his own people - a very bad thing - probably without fully realising it) to visit occassionally would've been best. That would technically make Bajor a good place for them, but somehow I don't think two Cardassians coming to live there would be too popular with the Bajorans. Maybe Deep Space 9 would've been a decent place to live for them.

The Never-Ending Sacrifice is my favourite treklit book (including A Stitch in Time, even) and I really love its portrayal of the series from the other side of the fence. And, of course, I got my location from it.
 
Something that is interesting about this episode is trying to figure out what Garak's motivation here: getting back at Dukat, or helping the children. Admittedly I tend to be on the skeptical side and I think he's just getting back at Dukat...except for that moment when he appears genuinely shocked and saddened by the Cardassian orphans. That was one emotion that I believed to be genuine.

I wonder if that was a delayed reaction, a moment where the reality struck him with unexpected force. Perhaps he was indeed simply playing politics, but (in part because he wasn't actually motivated by the children) he had an unexpected jolt when they were thrown in his face? And I wonder if it was less a personal response than a cultural one; confronting a horror that is, to Cardassian standards, an unavoidable evil but is still, shall we say, "unfair". We know Cardassians value family and children greatly, even by the high standards of humanoids, and that orphans are without status. Actually bumping into something so utterly tragic - children who not only have nothing (by mainstream Cardassian standards) but who cannot be anything. It wasn't their fault they lost their parents and are now nothing in the eyes of society - so the sense of tragedy is extreme. I actually compare it in my mind to some cultures of the past where, for example, a woman who was raped would lose all social status - one of the reasons such things horrified people so strongly was because, from the viewpoint of "decent" society, there was no choice but to discard the person in question. I think Garak is confronted here with something like that - something that horrifies him and most members of his culture with a degree of true empathy (which would discount Dukat, of course), but which is in part so distressing because he truly believes that this is a necessary evil. Orphans must be non-people, for family is everything. If that makes sense.
 
^I think that's indeed what's going on. Garak's motivation was just politics, but when he sees the orphans, he has a big "oh no, that's horrible" moment, and his emotion there was probably genuine.
 
He had to suddenly confront something he doesn't want to confront - that Cardassians in general don't want to confront. I always love the bit at the end of the episode when Sisko suggests to Pa'Dar that he might be able to do something for the genuine orphans and Pa'Dar brushes him off with "yes, well, perhaps", in a way that clearly means "let's avoid that conversation entirely, I'm not interested. Ignore the fact that I'd be flustered if I allowed myself to care for a moment, which I won't". We see from this episode that Cardassians have a zero-tolerance approach to anything that threatens the integrity of their traditional family, and they truly commit to that ideal even when it's painful or unfair. Even Pa'Dar can't bring himself to turn against the moral standard despite what happened to him and his child. And what's so sad and frustrating is that it's not that they don't care - it's that they honestly accept that it must be this way. When that girl asked Garak if he was there to bring them home to Cardassia, I think part of the reason it was so painful for Garak was because his culture sees the abandonment of orphans as the right thing to do. As I see it, Garak wasn't simply thinking "these children have been abandoned by Cardassia and that's tragic", he was thinking, "these children have been abandoned by Cardassia, which is absolutely how it must be - and that's tragic". Which of course is how Cardassian society works in general - you follow the rules; you obey; you sacrifice when told to; you do hard, even brutal things without hesitation, because that, you're told, is the only way your society can function and your people can survive the harsh realities of the universe. Thus morality is rigid and impersonal, not necessarily because you don't care (though, sadly, many on Cardassia have indeed lost their capacity for compassion), but because they've been taught that they can't afford to be any other way.
 
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I think something that allowed his Bajoran foster parents (who I also think genuinely cared about Rugal and didn't see him as a Cardassian any more, yet because of their hate for Cardassians basically taught Rugal to hate his own people - a very bad thing - probably without fully realising it) to visit occassionally would've been best.

I don't know...I tend not to agree with that considering just how poisonous what Proka did really was to Rugal. :(

That would technically make Bajor a good place for them, but somehow I don't think two Cardassians coming to live there would be too popular with the Bajorans. Maybe Deep Space 9 would've been a decent place to live for them.

DS9 could've worked...or any colony world in the Federation. Preferably still one that had a Bajoran minority around, so there'd be a temple where Rugal could worship.
 
Rugal saw himself as Bajoran, he lived on Bajor, a planet conquered and occupied for 50 years by Cardassians. He could've gotten his hatred for Crdassians from any number of things (being abandoned, what they've done to his friends families, what they've done to the Bajoran people in general, etc). I don't think it's fair to say, without any proof, that his Bajoran father went out of his way to actively train Rugal to hate Cardassians. I can't imagine there were many Bajorans who didn't hate Cardassians.
 
Rugal saw himself as Bajoran, he lived on Bajor, a planet conquered and occupied for 50 years by Cardassians. He could've gotten his hatred for Crdassians from any number of things (being abandoned, what they've done to his friends families, what they've done to the Bajoran people in general, etc). I don't think it's fair to say, without any proof, that his Bajoran father went out of his way to actively train Rugal to hate Cardassians. I can't imagine there were many Bajorans who didn't hate Cardassians.

True, but I think what Nerys Ghemor is troubled by is the possibility - the likelihood even - of Rugal suffering serious damage from his adoptive father's attitude even if Proka isn't being knowingly abusive. Proka can genuinely love Rugal and never dream of openly harming him, but the sad thing is that he doesn't have to tell Rugal that he's bad because he's Cardassian for the boy to pick up that message. Statements like "they won't hurt you, they're humans...not Cardassians" can be damaging in various ways. It's clear Proka considers Rugal to be for all intents and purposes Bajoran, and Rugal himself is, as you say, Bajoran in his own mind. But when he looks in the mirror he sees a gray-skinned being with slick black hair and scaly neck ridges; he sees a Cardassian. And Cardassians, he's told, are bad. They hurt people. That's what they do. For my part, I'm convinced that Proka was a loving parent who didn't knowingly behave abusively and who would never openly see Rugal as lesser or evil based on who he is genetically. But Rugal can still be picking up that idea from Proka regardless. Raising a child is a tricky business, of course, and a complex one - everything you are, everything you do and say and the attitudes you embody, it all affects the child. A parent can damage a child without ever intending to, indeed they might be truly horrified and offended at any accusation. That's the real tragedy in this situation, I think. Like I said, I believe Proka was a loving father who would never harm Rugal by choice - but his attitude could still have been very harmful to Rugal, regardless.
 
Rugal saw himself as Bajoran, he lived on Bajor, a planet conquered and occupied for 50 years by Cardassians. He could've gotten his hatred for Crdassians from any number of things (being abandoned, what they've done to his friends families, what they've done to the Bajoran people in general, etc). I don't think it's fair to say, without any proof, that his Bajoran father went out of his way to actively train Rugal to hate Cardassians. I can't imagine there were many Bajorans who didn't hate Cardassians.

True, but I think what Nerys Ghemor is troubled by is the possibility - the likelihood even - of Rugal suffering serious damage from his adoptive father's attitude even if Proka isn't being knowingly abusive. Proka can genuinely love Rugal and never dream of openly harming him, but the sad thing is that he doesn't have to tell Rugal that he's bad because he's Cardassian for the boy to pick up that message. Statements like "they won't hurt you, they're humans...not Cardassians" can be damaging in various ways. It's clear Proka considers Rugal to be for all intents and purposes Bajoran, and Rugal himself is, as you say, Bajoran in his own mind. But when he looks in the mirror he sees a gray-skinned being with slick black hair and scaly neck ridges; he sees a Cardassian. And Cardassians, he's told, are bad. They hurt people. That's what they do. For my part, I'm convinced that Proka was a loving parent who didn't knowingly behave abusively and who would never openly see Rugal as lesser or evil based on who he is genetically. But Rugal can still be picking up that idea from Proka regardless. Raising a child is a tricky business, of course, and a complex one - everything you are, everything you do and say and the attitudes you embody, it all affects the child. A parent can damage a child without ever intending to, indeed they might be truly horrified and offended at any accusation. That's the real tragedy in this situation, I think. Like I said, I believe Proka was a loving father who would never harm Rugal by choice - but his attitude could still have been very harmful to Rugal, regardless.
I don't see that statement as necessarily damning either, considering it's a well known fact that Rugal does fear and hate Cardassians. I don't believe it's any different than a child who fears and hates dogs (And maybe had a bad run in with one or more) and telling them "It's OK, he won't hurt you, he's a cat, not a dog". just a quick simple reassurance that Humans aren't like what he has become accustomed to Cardassians being like.

We don't know exactly where Rugal's attitude towards Cardassians came from. Certainly your take on the situation is possible, but, I don't think we can take it for granted, without knowing exactly where his attitude comes from, or what other experiences he's had with Cardassians personally.

Your Regents Avatar is awesome, BTW
 
I don't believe it's any different than a child who fears and hates dogs (And maybe had a bad run in with one or more) and telling them "It's OK, he won't hurt you, he's a cat, not a dog". just a quick simple reassurance that Humans aren't like what he has become accustomed to Cardassians being like.

I certainly acknowledge your point - it's entirely understandable that most Bajorans (including Rugal as an adopted Bajoran) would associate Cardassians with brutality or pain due to experience, and so the idea that Proka's comment wasn't intended to carry any barb but was just a case of "these people aren't like the other uniformed officers you've come to fear" makes perfect sense. I suppose it depends how much each of us read into the wording, the attitude, the situation both individual and political - and as is the case with so many real-life abuse cases, it can be hard to see if we're looking too hard or not hard enough. Do we run the risk of finding abuse that isn't there or do we run the risk of ignoring abuse that is there? Do we do both? Which is the greater evil? I think part of what makes this such a compelling and successful episode is that it genuinely portrays the issues at hand with the due complexity - and the painful ambiguities.

Your Regents Avatar is awesome, BTW

Thanks! :)
 
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