Warhammer 40K Race Selection - Gameplay

[V]

I'm trying to pick a Warhammer 40K race or army (considering the Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, etc. as distinct groups). This is NOT a storyline question and purely focused on the mechanics of gameplay.

I prefer a "Tank" race, slow and strong, to focus on choke points. For example, in "Lords of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth" games, I always pick the Dwarves -- they're few in number, slow, but powerful.

The problem is that Warhammer 40K has no direct analog for "Dwarves" like that.

The Eldar match the LOTR game Elves down to the small details: incredibly mobile units with strong firepower, but very fragile with weak armor (the idea being to use maneuver to concentrate Eldar forces on a first strike, so you don't have to take the hits).

So from the start, I am *not* looking for a "horde" army: this immediately rules out the Tyranids and the Orks.

I'm also not looking for a particularly fast army, but one that is well-armored (the exactly opposite of what the Eldar do, so Eldar and Dark Eldar are out).

This leaves the Space Marines (and customizable sub-variants), the Imperial Guard, the Sisters of Battle, the various Chaos armies, the Tau, and the Necrons.

I'm looking for Dwarf-like "Tank" race, which should fit the requirements of:

• Small number of elite units; not a horde.
• High armor and survivability
• Low mobility (to offset the high armor pick)
• No particular preference between melee and ranged weapons.
• It would be nice to have great offensive power, but the bigger emphasis is on unit survivability.

So who matches that?


Philosophically/emotionally, I'd pick the Imperial Guard....because I feel sorry for them! They're these desperately hopelessly outmatched guys always making last stands. I *wouldn't* pick them because they use horde-based infantry tactics.....but how does it work with vehicles? I've heard they have strong tanks. Is what I'm looking for a tank-heavy Imperial Guard army? Or how do their tanks compare to Space Marine tanks?

For that matter, what is the gameplay difference, in terms of army abilities, between Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines?

 

[FPAlpha]

From the sound of it Space Marines of any kind fit the bill apart from the low mobility thing since SM can be designed to move very fast across the table with the right units.

However you could limit yourself t infantry units and a tank here and there as support.

I'm not up to date with current rules and armies since i quit the game years ago but Necrons could also fit if they still have their "regeneration" rule of some kind (basically you could raise a model back into play with a dice roll after it was killed).

Concerning tanks i think the Imperial Guard has access to superheavy tanks even in 40K games and a single one of them can dominate the game but the SM tanks are designed to come across the table fast and unload a squad of SM at a critical location and they pack a punch on top of that.

The difference between Chaos Marines and normal Marines is often enough pure cosmetics.. they have the same basic stats and weapons but branch out a bit with the more chaos influenced troops with Chaos Marines (Obliterators for example) and normal Marines have access to some special units like Veterans, Sternguard or some even more unique units in named chapters like Space Wolves or Dark Angels. Basically it comes down to art style, taste and background preference (for whatever reason i was always drawn to the evil factions in any game ).

However if you want indepth advice i'd suggest you go to a specialized board where people with current knowledge of the game can give you far better advice.. one such board i used to visit regularly is called Warseer.. it's pretty big and they are always helpful with beginners.

 

[V]

Thanks. I'll still try to figure out which one matches this best (for Dawn of War video game purposes) but I think for tabletop purposes I'll heavily customize an existing army: either Tau with Space Marine auxiliaries, or Space Marines that defected to the Tau.

While the Tau do have human auxiliaries I don't think any Space Marines would ever actually defect to them, so I'd have to make this plausible, but if you think about it this could actually come up :

A big problem with the Imperium is that they're so set in their ways that they've all but abandoned technological progress of any kind, just rediscovering old lost technologies.

In contrast, the Tau have advanced from hunter-gatherers to an interstellar empire in a scant 6,000 years, because they *do* believe in technological advancement (a scant six thousand, in the sense that Imperial technology barely changed in that time).

I mean, look at the edge the Space Marines have over the Chaos Space Marines because they're still using technology from the Horus Heresy, and actual SM's are slightly more advanced.

So I'll make it that some Space Marine chapter got so dedicated to fighting Chaos and Aliens that they started actively researching technology to get better weapons -- which resulted in the Inquisition landing on them for heresy, and decimating them with the Sisters of Battle.

The surviving remnants then decide to actively defect to the Tau, because they *do* believe in technological advancement.

It has to be *plausible* within the fictional universe; i.e. what would make even the Space Marines disagree with the High Lords of Terra and get in trouble with the Inquisition, while still (in spirit) staying loyal to the Emperor? They earnestly disagreed with the ban on advancing new weapons technology, the stubborn and ham-fisted Inquisition lands on them. So they've got a choice of either becoming renegade pirates, or trying to still actively fight the worst foes of Earth in the galaxy (Choas, Tyranids) by signing up with another empire....and the only "sane" choices are either the Eldar or the Tau, but the Tau are already openly inclusive of humans that join them.

So it would be a Space Marine unit, outfitted with more advanced Tau pulse rifles, but retaining the heavier armor and melee fighting that the Tau don't have....the cost of which is that so much extra Tau-tech weighs them down to the point that they are *slow*.

I can see this working...

 

[FPAlpha]

Not to rain on your parade but.. where would you play this army?

From the looks of it you are taking the best of both worlds and have no weaknessess.. this is a typical beginners mistake.

I strongly urge you to reconsider because you will, at best, only occasionally find someone to play against your Space Marine/Tau hybrid army and it would be downright illegal in official GW stores and tournaments.

As many problems as i have/had with GW they do try to keep things balanced so Space Marines, while very powerful individually, are usually in the minority and have standard armaments whereas Tau are weaker and have next to no close combat capabilities but make up with better ranged weapons.

Background wise it is feasible to a degree.. there is a SM novel series that has a chapter seduced by Chaos and rebel against a corrupt Empire but then break free of the seduction and still fight against the enemies of the Empire while being hunted by the Inquisition and others. So background wise it is possible but not officially in the tabletop game.

 

[Sephiroth]

I would not play against you with that tau marine army, creative story work, but for a tabletop army, too unbalanced

 

[LunarYoma]

go space marine & field as many terminator squads/units as you can.

 

[Silent_Bob]

Thanks. I'll still try to figure out which one matches this best (for Dawn of War video game purposes) but I think for tabletop purposes I'll heavily customize an existing army: either Tau with Space Marine auxiliaries, or Space Marines that defected to the Tau.

While the Tau do have human auxiliaries I don't think any Space Marines would ever actually defect to them, so I'd have to make this plausible, but if you think about it this could actually come up :

A big problem with the Imperium is that they're so set in their ways that they've all but abandoned technological progress of any kind, just rediscovering old lost technologies.

In contrast, the Tau have advanced from hunter-gatherers to an interstellar empire in a scant 6,000 years, because they *do* believe in technological advancement (a scant six thousand, in the sense that Imperial technology barely changed in that time).

I mean, look at the edge the Space Marines have over the Chaos Space Marines because they're still using technology from the Horus Heresy, and actual SM's are slightly more advanced.

Other than Anti-grav tech there isn't that much of a difference these days. And in fact certain earlier marks of power armour are better than the current mark VII used by the Astartes.

So I'll make it that some Space Marine chapter got so dedicated to fighting Chaos and Aliens that they started actively researching technology to get better weapons -- which resulted in the Inquisition landing on them for heresy, and decimating them with the Sisters of Battle.

The Soritas are no longer a militant arm of the Inquisition, that particular background element was dropped with the advent of Codex Grey Knights and the White Dwarf Sisters of Battle codex. It'd be the Grey Knights that would be called in by the Inquisition to purge a chapter.

The surviving remnants then decide to actively defect to the Tau, because they *do* believe in technological advancement.

Why? Space Marines are trained from day one to hate the Xenos, the tenets of Imperial religion are to hate the Xenos. Why would your marines decide to forsake that teaching and side with Xenos filth like the Tau? Especially when there are multiple renegade Mechanicus factions that do allow for the advancement of technology - like the Cult of the Dragon for example.

It has to be *plausible* within the fictional universe; i.e. what would make even the Space Marines disagree with the High Lords of Terra and get in trouble with the Inquisition, while still (in spirit) staying loyal to the Emperor? They earnestly disagreed with the ban on advancing new weapons technology, the stubborn and ham-fisted Inquisition lands on them. So they've got a choice of either becoming renegade pirates, or trying to still actively fight the worst foes of Earth in the galaxy (Choas, Tyranids) by signing up with another empire....and the only "sane" choices are either the Eldar or the Tau, but the Tau are already openly inclusive of humans that join them.

Again why the Xenos? There are human factions perfectly willing to advance their technology.

So it would be a Space Marine unit, outfitted with more advanced Tau pulse rifles, but retaining the heavier armor and melee fighting that the Tau don't have....the cost of which is that so much extra Tau-tech weighs them down to the point that they are *slow*.

I can see this working...

I'm afraid to say i can't. You said at the start of your thinking that you want it to be plausible, but your group breaks too many of the "rules" of the setting to do so.

You've got Space Marines, first going against the teachings of the mechanicus, then siding against the Inquisition, surviving a Grey Knight purge with enough numbers to still be an effective military force, then breaking indoctrination and siding with Xenos. And then to top it all off using Xenos technology, rather than actually developing their own- which is what you said caused their heresy in the first place.

You've made a beginners mistake in trying to make your Marines unique and great, but have given them no weaknesses at all.

The result is a chapter thats so great it managed to beat off the Inquisition, convince the Tau to give them all the tech they want, and then is still strong enough to face down Chaos and 'Nids while still being the "good guys" and battling for humanity. Now individually each of these aspects is not necessarily bad or impossible in the setting, but combined together? It just doesn't work.

I would have a long think about the background you've come up with. Look at each element and decide which particular aspect is the most important to you and then focus on that.
If its techno-heresy go that route, let your marines experiment even let them go renegade - but alone and not go running off to Xenos.

If it's an alliance with the Tau, focus on that. Maybe they were impressed by their teachings or their protection of civilians? Or the Imperium left your chapter to die and the Tau saved them? Let them go Tau but recognise they are no longer the "good guys". They've turned their back on the Imperium, they've broken their vows to the Emperor.

In summary, don't try to do too many unique things with one army and give them a weakness.