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Is all this 3-D stuff a phase?

It's about acquiring the skill to create the message using the tools you have. Whichever medium the consumers support and the producers feel is more commercially viable will be mainstream. The one that loses out can still survive as a less popular niche artform with its passionate adherents. Black & White cinema still lives on, despite it being relatively uncommercial, for example. I don't see this change being a loss, really. Both 2D and 3D can survive, but neither has an intrinsic right to survive. Just like watercolours vs oils, or sculpture vs poetry.

Exactly so.

I doubt that 3D is going to find the level of acceptance in broadcast or cable television that it's achieving in movie theaters - not any time soon. The economic imperatives are different, for one thing. And just as sophisticated storytelling has for the most part fled to the now-not-so-small-screen as the demand for spectacle has consumed the general release movie industry, directors will be free to employ a century's worth of technique in television among other places.
 
This is a separate argument to the above and I don't know enough about filming to comment. But with technological advances (and glasses-less 3D is one of these) on the way in the future, I don't think it will necessarily be a zero-sum game here.

The problem is that photographers have built up 100 years worth of tricks for dealing with a 2-dimentional plane. A lot of that stuff has to get thrown out. Stuff such as:

* Fast cuts with wildly different focal points. Did'ja like the big space battles in Star Wars? Directors of the future will have to make a choice when making stuff like this: Either slow the cuts down or stick to similar shots (so, not close ups of little ships and then big shots with lots of ships right next to each other). The human eye isn't good at jumping between different focus points very quickly. Directors will have to decide which thing is more important to them at any given point in the film.

Cameron is apparently good at this. Good for him, he has a lot of patience. But outside of the superstars I don't like the idea of directors saying "let's try this shot" and a technician telling them "sorry, the eyes won't have time to adjust to this shot that quickly. We'll have to use this shot instead."

* Movie previews that don't drive your brain crazy. No matter how well a director plans his shots, they're gonna get all mixed up in the trailers. I thought 3D 'Tangled' was fine. I thought the 3D trailers before it were horrible for exactly this reason. I really don't see any good way out of this one.

* No more rack-focuses. This is a very 2-dimentional effect used to draw the audience's attention to certain places in a controlled way. Now, yes, we do gain ways of doing that with 3D, so it's a wash, right? Well, except for all those poor schmucks I talked about who are stuck watching the 2D version. They don't get rack-focuses AND they can't see the 3D effects that replaced them.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I say it's ruining 2D films. The guy watching in 2D gets slower cuts (or less varied shots) and less lens effects, but he doesn't see any of the 3D effects that replaced them. So now you either have to buy a 3D TV or get used to movies being more visually dull than they were before. Great. What a wonderful choice.

Incidentally, this is why I don't have much problem with 3D cartoons like Toy Story or Tangled. Animators have much more control over their world and can get around many of these problems. They can even create 2D versions with different shots or set pieces than the 3D versions if they want to. But it's when you move to real-world shooting that directors have to make compromises. Then you go home and watch the normal 2D DVD and you get the downsides without the fancy 3D effects. Your 2D movie is now worse than it otherwise would have been because of the 3D version.


Right now 3D is being most heavily used in summer blockbusters.

It's pretty easy to see the future.


Strange that all of that stuff you described was in Avatar. Remember the rack focus on the water drop for example? The fast cuts and shaky cam in the action scenes? Granted, not the Michael Bay/Paul Greengrass type, but that's pretty awful shit anyway.


And slower cuts... thank God for that. I'm tired of strobe editing. If 3D meant that they would return to cinematography and editing of the 80s and early 90s, Id be all for it. Last week I watched Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace back to back, and oh my God, what the fuck were they smoking when they shot and edited the action scenes of QoS?
 
Just because every other TV sold now is 3D capable, doesn't mean that it will be used.

My PVR has an HDD with a USB port. I can use it to listen to mp3s, but I don't. I can listen to mp3s in my DVD player, but I don't. I have a micro system with a built in tape deck that I have never used. I've never used the video capture ability of my digital camera.

They pack more and more gadgets into single appliances, but not everyone uses them. Just because TVs are sold 3D capable, doesn't mean that people will actually use that ability.
 
Just because every other TV sold now is 3D capable, doesn't mean that it will be used.

My PVR has an HDD with a USB port. I can use it to listen to mp3s, but I don't. I can listen to mp3s in my DVD player, but I don't. I have a micro system with a built in tape deck that I have never used. I've never used the video capture ability of my digital camera.

They pack more and more gadgets into single appliances, but not everyone uses them. Just because TVs are sold 3D capable, doesn't mean that people will actually use that ability.

Yeah, but what difference does that make for the manufacturer?

And then there's this:
http://blu-raydisc-reporter.com/2010/07/08/us-sales-indicate-blu-ray-3d-success/
 
Just because every other TV sold now is 3D capable, doesn't mean that it will be used.

My PVR has an HDD with a USB port. I can use it to listen to mp3s, but I don't. I can listen to mp3s in my DVD player, but I don't. I have a micro system with a built in tape deck that I have never used. I've never used the video capture ability of my digital camera.

They pack more and more gadgets into single appliances, but not everyone uses them. Just because TVs are sold 3D capable, doesn't mean that people will actually use that ability.

Yeah, but what difference does that make for the manufacturer?

And then there's this:
http://blu-raydisc-reporter.com/2010/07/08/us-sales-indicate-blu-ray-3d-success/

It makes no difference for the manufacturer, as all they want to do is sell kit, not determine what it is used for.

It makes a difference to the content provider.

You link would be more relevant if it were to a report announcing the success of 3D Blu-ray discs, instead of players.

It's just futureproofing. People don't want to limit themselves, they want as much as possible from their tech, just in case it becomes popular and useful in the future.

The last ever VHS deck I bought had this neat idea, with labels for tapes with the equivalent of RF chips in. You set your video using the digiguide, and whatever you record gets put into the chip, or on old tapes, you can enter the information manually. The idea was that when you put a tape with the label into the machine, it would read the chip, and a menu of what was recorded would come on screen, letting you fast forward to what you wanted to watch...

Guess what feature of the video I never used. Incidentally, 5 blank RF VHS labels are for sale, drop me a PM.
 
HDTV never required those damn glasses. That alone makes a big difference.

Also, HD resolution is a demonstratable, immediate, universal benefit. It's *obvious* that HD is better. 3D, on the other hand, is a gimmick; it doesn't always work, and it's not always needed.

Are you KIDDING ME?!?! It took years to convince my wife of the benefit of HD (she has 20/20 vision). And there's countless threads in this forum full of peoples' nonsensical ramblings about HD being a 'scam' with no discernible benefit over SD.
 
ENOUGH already.

Whose really going to see this film in 3-D?

It was never intended for that type experience. It will not convert well imo.
 
ENOUGH already.

Whose really going to see this film in 3-D?

It was never intended for that type experience. It will not convert well imo.

Top Gun was worth seeing on the big screen for one reason only: its beautiful photography of the F-14, which with the sound element created an immersive experience unparalleled in pop culture. Even just on deck waiting for takeoff, it was fantastic. The experience was worth having only because I disconnected my brain during every other part of the film.

If they put a lot of effort into a really fine conversion, it could be good, but.... I'm not holding my breath.
 
Top Gun was worth seeing on the big screen for one reason only: its beautiful photography of the F-14, which with the sound element created an immersive experience unparalleled in pop culture. Even just on deck waiting for takeoff, it was fantastic. The experience was worth having only because I disconnected my brain during every other part of the film.

If they put a lot of effort into a really fine conversion, it could be good, but.... I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, the fighter scenes were well done and would probably look quite cool. I'd probably either have to be a big fan of the movie or be with someone who is to bother to go see it, but those who love the movie would probably enjoy it.

The conversion process is not overly expensive so it doesn't have to make blockbuster money to break even. There's no reason not to convert a movie to 3D as long as you can recoup your investment. It doesn't harm someone by doing so. The movie will still exist in two dimensions.
 
There needs to be better regulation to stop 3-D being tacked at the end poorly. If your doing 3-D then you do it from the start not as a last minute quick extra dollars scheme.

Simple fact no movie has done it properly since Avatar.

I agree with the first part, post-conversions are usually terrible.

I disagree with your other assertion though. Did you see Toy Story 3 or TRON in 3D?

3D animated movies are a natural for this process because they are designed in a totally 3D world from the ground up anyway. And TRON... TRON was beautifully immersive in 3D. The style lent itself to the process naturally.

I can't wait to step into Middle Earth this Christmas either, I think PJ will do a better job filming in 3D than any move thus far.
 
The thing is, apart from maybe Avatar, are there any movies that have actually been better because they were in 3D?
I confess the only 3D movie I've seen has been Tron Legacy, and to be honest, after the opening credits I never even noticed the 3D work. I suspect I would have enjoyed it just as much in 2D. And been $4 richer afterwards. :)
 
The thing is, apart from maybe Avatar, are there any movies that have actually been better because they were in 3D?
I confess the only 3D movie I've seen has been Tron Legacy, and to be honest, after the opening credits I never even noticed the 3D work. I suspect I would have enjoyed it just as much in 2D. And been $4 richer afterwards. :)

I haven't seen it in 3-D, but I heard Up was beautiful in 3-D.

I don't mind 3-D movies that were made for 3-D. Like Pixar, I wouldn't mind going to 3-D movies for that company because like everything else, I know they will do a good job. What I don't like is movies getting the 3-D treatment just because it's "kewl". Movies like Top Gun and Titanic, for example, don't need to be updated. Maybe brought back for nostalgia reasons (I will see 2-D showings of both Titanic and Top Gun just because it's on the big screen and "Danger Zone" in a movie theater might be amazing in all the surround sound glory), but that should be the only reason.
 
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