The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Maurice]

Looks like they used the new CG model more often than they admitted to... That's shortly before the separation sequence:

And the ship is crabbing through space still. Some things never change.

 

[davejames]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

If they are going to edit in new special effects, I would like to see a redesign of the U.S.S. Stargazer, to make it look more futuristic, as a ship between the ST VI and TNG era, rather than the mishmash of Ent-A model parts the production crew had to use due to budget restraints at the time. They could still keep the basic shape, but I'd like to see the vessel larger (at least the size of an Excelsior-class), with a more advanced engine design than the Constitution-class - it always seemed ridiculous that a vessel that looks smaller than the Constitution-class, armed with what looks like 23rd century weapons and engines, compared to more modern designs, was still being sent out on deep-space missions in the 2350 - that seems irresponsible of Starfleet, when they have so many more heavily armed, advanced designs, to seen a crew in such an underclassed vessel out into the dangers of deep, deep space - that's why the Miranda-class was shown to have been relegated to secondary missions, like local tactical patrol and supply duties. With the advantages of computer FX, lets give the Stargazer a more modern look ...

Let's don't...

Just because we recognize the shell as not being a state of the art design doesn't mean she wasn't state of the art for 2350 under the hood.

Plus, it'd be problematic as you'd still have the Stargazer model in Picard's Ready Room.

The only change I'd like to see with the Stargazer (and that other Constellation ship in Elementary, Dear Data) is to have it shrunken way the hell down. Considering the scale of the saucer, nacelles, and windows on that model, it appears WAY too massive in size compared to the Enterprise-D:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg

 

[Timo47]

I'm also starting to think that that's not a matte painting in Sins or EAF of the E at least as it matches up almost identically with the original model shot in EAF: http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x01/farpoint1_110.jpg

There are some extra lit windows and some windows missing on the neck, but otherwise it's pretty much the same. Perhaps they just tweaked the model shot digitally. It seems like they lit a few more windows digitally in the close up of the neck locks in the separation sequence as well.

Nope, it's clearly a matte painting because, aside from the windows, it contains changes made to the model for Generations (single window instead of 2 above the torpedo launcher and the extra details added to the thrusters).

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

If they are going to edit in new special effects, I would like to see a redesign of the U.S.S. Stargazer, to make it look more futuristic, as a ship between the ST VI and TNG era, rather than the mishmash of Ent-A model parts the production crew had to use due to budget restraints at the time. They could still keep the basic shape, but I'd like to see the vessel larger (at least the size of an Excelsior-class), with a more advanced engine design than the Constitution-class - it always seemed ridiculous that a vessel that looks smaller than the Constitution-class, armed with what looks like 23rd century weapons and engines, compared to more modern designs, was still being sent out on deep-space missions in the 2350 - that seems irresponsible of Starfleet, when they have so many more heavily armed, advanced designs, to seen a crew in such an underclassed vessel out into the dangers of deep, deep space - that's why the Miranda-class was shown to have been relegated to secondary missions, like local tactical patrol and supply duties. With the advantages of computer FX, lets give the Stargazer a more modern look ...

Let's don't...

Just because we recognize the shell as not being a state of the art design doesn't mean she wasn't state of the art for 2350 under the hood.

Plus, it'd be problematic as you'd still have the Stargazer model in Picard's Ready Room.

The only change I'd like to see with the Stargazer (and that other Constellation ship in Elementary, Dear Data) is to have it shrunken way the hell down. Considering the scale of the saucer, nacelles, and windows on that model, it appears WAY too massive in size compared to the Enterprise-D:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg

It and other smaller ships we see across the series could benefit from a rescaling.

 

[sojourner]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

The only change I'd like to see with the Stargazer (and that other Constellation ship in Elementary, Dear Data) is to have it shrunken way the hell down. Considering the scale of the saucer, nacelles, and windows on that model, it appears WAY too massive in size compared to the Enterprise-D:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg

I just imagine that its an issue of forced perspective in those cases where a ship appears too large/small in a scene. It helps me get through the day.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

They should change the scales... That was always irritating. I wonder if they will change the K'Vort Bird of Preys in "Yesterday's Enterprise", I woud love to see a bunch of new Klingon ships.

 

[davejames]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

It and other smaller ships we see across the series could benefit from a rescaling.

Yeah, people complain about the scale issues with JJ's Enterprise, but TNG was possibly an even worse offender over the years.

I don't really need the Stargazer to be shrunken down ALL the way (which I guess would be the length of the D's nacelles), because obviously it still has to represent some kind of threat in the story. But hopefully they at least shrink it down a little bit.

 

[davejames]

And then there's this hilarious shot, where the Ent-D appears almost microscopic compared to how the refit measured up in TWOK.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s2/2x09/themeasureofaman025.jpg

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

It and other smaller ships we see across the series could benefit from a rescaling.

Yeah, people complain about the scale issues with JJ's Enterprise, but TNG was possibly an even worse offender over the years.

I don't really need the Stargazer to be shrunken down ALL the way (which I guess would be the length of the D's nacelles), because obviously it still has to represent some kind of threat in the story. But hopefully they at least shrink it down a little bit.

Wel, TNG has the excuse of being limited with what they could do with models and video technology in the 1980s/90s on a TV show budget. The scale problems in JJ's Trek comes from just arrogance in making the ship simply way too damn big for it to make any sense.

As for the size of it, the look of it in the screen cap seems almost right. I'd say it only needs to come down a little bit, it looks like the ships only real hull is about the size of the Enterprise's secondary hull (excluding the interconnecting dorsal neck) which would only make it maybe twenty decks or so high, or about the size of Kirk's Enterprise from top to bottom. Maybe a touch "big" but not too unreasonable.

 

[Maurice]

And then there's this hilarious shot, where the Ent-D appears almost microscopic compared to how the refit measured up in TWOK.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s2/2x09/themeasureofaman025.jpg

Ugh. And the lighting is a total mismatch.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

I'm also starting to think that that's not a matte painting in Sins or EAF of the E at least as it matches up almost identically with the original model shot in EAF: http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x01/farpoint1_110.jpg

There are some extra lit windows and some windows missing on the neck, but otherwise it's pretty much the same. Perhaps they just tweaked the model shot digitally. It seems like they lit a few more windows digitally in the close up of the neck locks in the separation sequence as well.

I think slightly tweaking the miniature digitally is too unlikely an explanation. There are other detail mismatches too:

***

You're right about the added windows in the separation sequence. But I think it's perhaps due to the window light pass being slightly misaligned in the original composite by ILM, causing the windows furthest from the camera to appear as if they were unlit:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/106678

 

[JJohnson]

Looks like they used the new CG model more often than they admitted to... That's shortly before the separation sequence:

THIS IS THE SHOT. The warp stars are OFF-ANGLE. I sincerely hope they fix that. This one shot irritates me every time it's shown. It's like the original Enterprise flying straight ahead into the screen at a 3/4 perspective...every week it did that. It looks bad.

 

[JJohnson]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

If they are going to edit in new special effects, I would like to see a redesign of the U.S.S. Stargazer, to make it look more futuristic, as a ship between the ST VI and TNG era, rather than the mishmash of Ent-A model parts the production crew had to use due to budget restraints at the time. They could still keep the basic shape, but I'd like to see the vessel larger (at least the size of an Excelsior-class), with a more advanced engine design than the Constitution-class - it always seemed ridiculous that a vessel that looks smaller than the Constitution-class, armed with what looks like 23rd century weapons and engines, compared to more modern designs, was still being sent out on deep-space missions in the 2350 - that seems irresponsible of Starfleet, when they have so many more heavily armed, advanced designs, to seen a crew in such an underclassed vessel out into the dangers of deep, deep space - that's why the Miranda-class was shown to have been relegated to secondary missions, like local tactical patrol and supply duties. With the advantages of computer FX, lets give the Stargazer a more modern look ...

Let's don't...

Just because we recognize the shell as not being a state of the art design doesn't mean she wasn't state of the art for 2350 under the hood.

Plus, it'd be problematic as you'd still have the Stargazer model in Picard's Ready Room.

The only change I'd like to see with the Stargazer (and that other Constellation ship in Elementary, Dear Data) is to have it shrunken way the hell down. Considering the scale of the saucer, nacelles, and windows on that model, it appears WAY too massive in size compared to the Enterprise-D:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg

Yes, please rescale this ship and all other ships to the correct size when actually sending out the season sets. The Constitution-class saucer and nacelles should not be that huge in comparison to the Enterprise-D, and a lot of other ships (Excelsiors, Birds of Prey, etc.) as well.

 

[Captain Fine]

I'd like to see the ships rescaled too.

But it doesn't look like they're doing that based on the Ent-D with the Hood shot.

 

[GalaxyX]

We've officially transitioned to calling it "GalaxyXing the show" .

All I'm trying to say is that there are things that desperately need to be corrected that are not necessarily just "rescan the originals into HD".

This might sound like nitpicking, but the starfield that switches motion from the planet Saturn is something everyone else noticed (that they should have corrected). But has anyone noticed that the actual planet Saturn looks rocky as opposed to what the real one is supposed to look like?

Man I'm even afraid of suggesting that they should have corrected that to look more like the real Saturn lest everyone gang up on me calling me a Lucas fanboy.

Anyway it looks like you guys are getting what you want anyway, which is most of the original shots remastered to HD, and CGI filling in the holes almost exactly like the original aired. The fixing of the energy beam in EaF seems almost coincidental, and I'm actually surprised most aren't calling it a Lucas moment.

 

[Tosk]

But has anyone noticed that the actual planet Saturn looks rocky as opposed to what the real one is supposed to look like?

Who says that's Saturn?

 

[mswood]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

If they are going to edit in new special effects, I would like to see a redesign of the U.S.S. Stargazer, to make it look more futuristic, as a ship between the ST VI and TNG era, rather than the mishmash of Ent-A model parts the production crew had to use due to budget restraints at the time. They could still keep the basic shape, but I'd like to see the vessel larger (at least the size of an Excelsior-class), with a more advanced engine design than the Constitution-class - it always seemed ridiculous that a vessel that looks smaller than the Constitution-class, armed with what looks like 23rd century weapons and engines, compared to more modern designs, was still being sent out on deep-space missions in the 2350 - that seems irresponsible of Starfleet, when they have so many more heavily armed, advanced designs, to seen a crew in such an underclassed vessel out into the dangers of deep, deep space - that's why the Miranda-class was shown to have been relegated to secondary missions, like local tactical patrol and supply duties. With the advantages of computer FX, lets give the Stargazer a more modern look ...

Let's don't...

Just because we recognize the shell as not being a state of the art design doesn't mean she wasn't state of the art for 2350 under the hood.

Plus, it'd be problematic as you'd still have the Stargazer model in Picard's Ready Room.

The only change I'd like to see with the Stargazer (and that other Constellation ship in Elementary, Dear Data) is to have it shrunken way the hell down. Considering the scale of the saucer, nacelles, and windows on that model, it appears WAY too massive in size compared to the Enterprise-D:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg

God how I loathe that shot. I hate that flyby of the Enterprise (it's probably my most disliked shot of the full series), and the first season used it all the time, had in more ships and its still absolutely terrible.

 

[mswood]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R - Stargazer redesign?

Let's don't...

Just because we recognize the shell as not being a state of the art design doesn't mean she wasn't state of the art for 2350 under the hood.

Plus, it'd be problematic as you'd still have the Stargazer model in Picard's Ready Room.

The only change I'd like to see with the Stargazer (and that other Constellation ship in Elementary, Dear Data) is to have it shrunken way the hell down. Considering the scale of the saucer, nacelles, and windows on that model, it appears WAY too massive in size compared to the Enterprise-D:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg

It and other smaller ships we see across the series could benefit from a rescaling.

That's actually the thing I was most disappointed that we aren't getting. I am fine with almost all shots designed at the time, but god could you at least pretend the scale is close.

 

[sojourner]

But has anyone noticed that the actual planet Saturn looks rocky as opposed to what the real one is supposed to look like?

Don't be obtuse. Not every planet with rings is supposed to be Saturn. Especially that one.

 

[davejames]

THIS IS THE SHOT. The warp stars are OFF-ANGLE. I sincerely hope they fix that. This one shot irritates me every time it's shown. It's like the original Enterprise flying straight ahead into the screen at a 3/4 perspective...every week it did that. It looks bad.

To be honest, it's been that way for so long I think I'd just be distracted seeing the stars coming from a radically different angle now.