Red Tails Discussion Thread

[Admiral James Kirk]

I plan on watching Red Tails within the next week. With a 33% fresh critics rating and a 72% audience rating at RT it seems that George Lucas has once again succeeded at creating a movie that is not only critic proof but that speaks to audiences. A wonderful vindication for a wonderful filmmaker.

He, uh, didn't make it outside of signing checks.

I don't think you understand how George Lucas films are made. He designs every scene in pre-production and then the "director" gets the coverage. Anthony Hemingway called action and cut on the scenes and worked with the actors-all important stuff to be sure- but where the camera goes and final cut in the editing room were all Lucas'. Also GL directed all the action scenes and the reshoots. Hemingway was hired to work with the actors. Everything else was all Lucas'.

 

[wew]

I saw it on Friday and was actually somewhat disappointed. The aerial scences were great, but when seeing the infamous "based on" quote at the beginning I was very concerned.

To some degreee many of the characters seemed to be characterizations/stereotypes found in many older military movies. I was also disturbed at the decision to "create new characters." You would think with a historically based movie you would at least use real characters. The renaming of Colonel Benjamin O. Davis as Col. A.J. Bullard is something I consider as a disgrace; furthermore, history indicates that the attack the ship is somewhat hazy.

Some sources indicate either 2 or 4 aircraft actually participated in the attack, arguably it was either Captain Wendell O. Pruitt or a 1st Lieutenant who's name I can't remember at the moment. Neither who died in combat versus the Germans, Pruitt died on a training mission in the states, and the 1st Lieutenant actually survived the war.

To me the wost thing is I will have to correct my students who will use this film as the basis for their historical facts.

 

[Harvey]

I don't think you understand how George Lucas films are made. He designs every scene in pre-production and then the "director" gets the coverage. Anthony Hemingway called action and cut on the scenes and worked with the actors-all important stuff to be sure- but where the camera goes and final cut in the editing room were all Lucas'. Also GL directed all the action scenes and the reshoots. Hemingway was hired to work with the actors. Everything else was all Lucas'.

Anthony Hemingway's version of the production process certainly differs with your account.

 

[Admiral2]

I don't think Terence Blanchard is a small time composer; he's worked on a number of Hollywood films (almost exclusively films by African-American directors). I can't comment on the score, though, since I've neither heard it nor seen the movie (yet).

Maybe he's not small-time, but his score was disappointing to me. I was looking for a rousing symphonic score to go with the WWII action, and instead what I got was just a step above the Firefly soundtrack.

 

[Forbin]

I saw it on Friday and was actually somewhat disappointed. The aerial scences were great, but when seeing the infamous "based on" quote at the beginning I was very concerned.

To some degreee many of the characters seemed to be characterizations/stereotypes found in many older military movies. I was also disturbed at the decision to "create new characters." You would think with a historically based movie you would at least use real characters. The renaming of Colonel Benjamin O. Davis as Col. A.J. Bullard is something I consider as a disgrace; furthermore, history indicates that the attack the ship is somewhat hazy.

Some sources indicate either 2 or 4 aircraft actually participated in the attack, arguably it was either Captain Wendell O. Pruitt or a 1st Lieutenant who's name I can't remember at the moment. Neither who died in combat versus the Germans, Pruitt died on a training mission in the states, and the 1st Lieutenant actually survived the war.

To me the wost thing is I will have to correct my students who will use this film as the basis for their historical facts.

Could it be possible that some of the men or their families couldn't be reached for clearance to use their names? I know that sounds unlikely, but it's all I can think of.

 

[davejames]

And all through the movie, I kept thinkin' that HBO told a better story about the same group seventeen years ago! And if ya can't make a better movie than a cable channel, then maybe ya shouldn't be makin' your movie.

This movie actually has me more interested in seeing that HBO version again than Lucas's movie.

And they just released it on blu-ray, so I'm curious to see how it holds up.

 

[Brolan]

I saw it on Friday and was actually somewhat disappointed. The aerial scences were great, but when seeing the infamous "based on" quote at the beginning I was very concerned.

To some degreee many of the characters seemed to be characterizations/stereotypes found in many older military movies. I was also disturbed at the decision to "create new characters." You would think with a historically based movie you would at least use real characters. The renaming of Colonel Benjamin O. Davis as Col. A.J. Bullard is something I consider as a disgrace; furthermore, history indicates that the attack the ship is somewhat hazy.

Some sources indicate either 2 or 4 aircraft actually participated in the attack, arguably it was either Captain Wendell O. Pruitt or a 1st Lieutenant who's name I can't remember at the moment. Neither who died in combat versus the Germans, Pruitt died on a training mission in the states, and the 1st Lieutenant actually survived the war.

To me the wost thing is I will have to correct my students who will use this film as the basis for their historical facts.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but from the previews it looks like they were attacking a heavy cruiser, at least. In the historical action the they were strafing a destroyer with P-47 Thunderbolts instead of the movie's P-51 Mustangs. The target distinction is important because while the .50 caliber machine guns carried by the P-51 & P-47 could do significant damage to a thinly armored destroyer, they would do next to nothing to the armor of a cruiser. Or did they give the aircraft bombs in the movie?

 

[od0_ital]

^

Nope, no bombs. In the movie, its shown to be one flyer with the machine guns makin' two runs at the ship, takin' it out on his own.

 

[Forbin]

Hey, my Dad sank a destroyer with a P-47(N) once! He salvoed his 5" HVARs to do it, though.

 

[DarKush]

Saw the film yesterday. Was very enjoyable. I think the critics saw a different film.

 

[Brolan]

Hey, my Dad sank a destroyer with a P-47(N) once! He salvoed his 5" HVARs to do it, though.

Cool, did he ever find out the name of the destroyer he sank?

 

[Forbin]

Hey, my Dad sank a destroyer with a P-47(N) once! He salvoed his 5" HVARs to do it, though.

Cool, did he ever find out the name of the destroyer he sank?

Nope. He probably didn't care. I think everything was labelled "target" in his head at the time.

Also, one of its gunners had just hit his windshield and shattered about halfway through the 14 laminations of armor glass, so he was really pissed.

 

[TigerBait]

I was hooked from the opening scene going forward. Yes, there are predictable elements of the movie, such as one of the heros falling in love with a local italian girl, and of course a character that has a drinking problem that has to come to terms with it, but overall the story and especially the aerial combat was fantastic.

the acting was not the best, and there were scenes that can be described as cringeworthy...looking at you (white pilots leaving the bombers behind, so that the red tails can save the day).

BUT, and this is a huge BUT, the combat was amazing...flying fortresses taken out of the sky, and the air to air, and air to surface combat was the best ive seen in any movie....ANY movie. please, if anyone has seen better, please let me know.

 

[siskostemper]

I was hooked from the opening scene going forward. Yes, there are predictable elements of the movie, such as one of the heros falling in love with a local italian girl, and of course a character that has a drinking problem that has to come to terms with it, but overall the story and especially the aerial combat was fantastic.

the acting was not the best, and there were scenes that can be described as cringeworthy...looking at you (white pilots leaving the bombers behind, so that the red tails can save the day).

BUT, and this is a huge BUT, the combat was amazing...flying fortresses taken out of the sky, and the air to air, and air to surface combat was the best ive seen in any movie....ANY movie. please, if anyone has seen better, please let me know.

There where places where the acting could have been better but the part you are talking about really happened. From a historical context the situations where all real but how they where resolved where changed up for dramas sake. All of the major battles where included but one. They got in a huge furball over a lake somewhere between Germany and Italy.

 

[Star Wolf]

I saw it on Friday and was actually somewhat disappointed. The aerial scences were great, but when seeing the infamous "based on" quote at the beginning I was very concerned.

To some degreee many of the characters seemed to be characterizations/stereotypes found in many older military movies. I was also disturbed at the decision to "create new characters." You would think with a historically based movie you would at least use real characters. The renaming of Colonel Benjamin O. Davis as Col. A.J. Bullard is something I consider as a disgrace; .

I agree, whole heartedly about General Davis. I had heard about it and was also concerned by the ad campaign, which is now calling it "the feel good movie of the year"

What do we get as the first scene, the uber Nazi look of the Luffwaffe squadron commander, flying with his oxygen mask off. Only to have him survive and meet "the best" Tuskegee Airman in a showdown P-51 versus Me-262 where our hero recognizes the other pilot as a distinct personality. It wasn't like he was Darth Vadar in a different kind of jet but recognize him he did.

 

[Mysterion]

Saw it this morning and enjoyed it. Sure, it's not historically accurate in parts, but fotunately it isn't a documentary so that's okay. It's a throwback to the classic war movies of the 40s and 50s, in a good way. Will get this on DVD when it is available.

 

[JustAFriend]

Went out to see "Red Tails" today and I have say I was..... bored!

The 1997 TV movie "The Tuskegee Airmen" (which also had Cuba Gooding Jr. in it) did it SOOOOO much better at 1/20th the budget. Lucas obviously dumped a lot of money into CGI dogfights but the rest of the script was a mess. The actors did a good job but I kept waiting for it to jell and it never did..... :-(

btw: I was at the 2005 Mustang Gathering in Columbus OH where the Tuskegee Airmen survivors and 100+ P-51s flew. I know what it sounds like to have a squadron of Mustangs fire up and rumble down the runway. How could Lucas and the normally great Lucas Sound make P-51s with 2000hp almost wimpy?

 

[Forbin]

btw: I was at the 2005 Mustang Gathering in Columbus OH where the Tuskegee Airmen survivors and 100+ P-51s flew. I know what it sounds like to have a squadron of Mustangs fire up and rumble down the runway.

ENVY!
I saw three of them at a small airshow once, doing simulated strafing runs. The wind screaming thru the belly scoops and the shriek of the Merlins was... religious.

 

[Brolan]

Went out to see "Red Tails" today and I have say I was..... bored!

The 1997 TV movie "The Tuskegee Airmen" (which also had Cuba Gooding Jr. in it) did it SOOOOO much better at 1/20th the budget. Lucas obviously dumped a lot of money into CGI dogfights but the rest of the script was a mess. The actors did a good job but I kept waiting for it to jell and it never did..... :-(

btw: I was at the 2005 Mustang Gathering in Columbus OH where the Tuskegee Airmen survivors and 100+ P-51s flew. I know what it sounds like to have a squadron of Mustangs fire up and rumble down the runway. How could Lucas and the normally great Lucas Sound make P-51s with 2000hp almost wimpy?

Totally agree. I saw it on Saturday. Went in with low expectations, but damn, it was bad.

Script sounded like it was written by a high school kid after watching too many 50's war movies.

Liked the visual SFX but the audio was awful. And the so called score was the worst piece of garbage I have heard this side of a porno flick. Where was John Williams when you needed him?

 

[Brolan]

I saw it on Friday and was actually somewhat disappointed. The aerial scences were great, but when seeing the infamous "based on" quote at the beginning I was very concerned.

To some degreee many of the characters seemed to be characterizations/stereotypes found in many older military movies. I was also disturbed at the decision to "create new characters." You would think with a historically based movie you would at least use real characters. The renaming of Colonel Benjamin O. Davis as Col. A.J. Bullard is something I consider as a disgrace; .

I agree, whole heartedly about General Davis. I had heard about it and was also concerned by the ad campaign, which is now calling it "the feel good movie of the year"

What do we get as the first scene, the uber Nazi look of the Luffwaffe squadron commander, flying with his oxygen mask off. Only to have him survive and meet "the best" Tuskegee Airman in a showdown P-51 versus Me-262 where our hero recognizes the other pilot as a distinct personality. It wasn't like he was Darth Vadar in a different kind of jet but recognize him he did.

The identification I at least understand as his was the only plane in his squadron with a yellow nose.