So, Odo changes his mass when shape shifting?

[Draculasaurus]

Odo can change into very small things which apparently don't have the mass of a full sized humanoid, nor does Odo seem to be extraordinarily light in his humanoid form.
How does that work? Does he shift his mass into another dimension, or something?
Has anyone ever tried to explain this?

 

[Methos]

possibly altering his density as well as mass... when he does the 'glow' thing with Kira, he turns vaguely gaseous and half made of light, so he obviously has some control over his density along with his mass...

so maybe when his mass is smaller, he just increases his density along the same line

M

 

[Silvercrest]

Yes, so that when he turns into a glass or a tray to spy on Quark, no one thinks it odd that the tray weighs approximately 200 pounds.

Either that's where Quark keeps all his latinum and everyone considers it normal, or you need another explanation.

Besides, I don't think a normal-sized seagull (DS9: "Homefront") weighing 200 pounds could ever get off the ground.

 

[Timo]

It's more or less a given that Odo has some secret pocket into which he can shove things such as extra mass. It's not just random mass that disappears and later reappears, after all - it's things like commbadges and isolinear rods, too.

For all we know, Odo is that pocket. After all, somehow he's able to retreat so completely from this universe that even a tricorder thinks that he has become a rock. Yet somehow his consciousness then returns from somewhere and gives the rock back its ability and will to shapeshift into something else.

Quite possibly, then, Changelings are creatures of some other universe, perhaps living in a niche of subspace (like in TNG "Schisms") or phase space (like in "The Next Phase" or "Time's Arrow") and extending something out of there to manipulate the matter of our universe.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RoJoHen]

When in doubt, blame subspace.

 

[Dukhat]

There was an episode where Odo looked like he was drinking out of a cup, when in reality the cup and the constantly-refilling liquid inside it was actually part of Odo himself. So by that logic, if he can imitate both solid and liquid structures at the same time, there's no reason why he couldn't have part of his mass take the form of a 1/2 pound glass, and the other 199.5 pounds take the form of just air that you can't see, that's attached to the cup by the thinnest of molecules.

 

[Christopher]

How does that work? Does he shift his mass into another dimension, or something?

Yes, in fact, that was the rationalization that DS9 producer Robert Hewitt Wolfe devised behind the scenes, although it never ended up onscreen.

 

[Timo]

...and the other 199.5 pounds take the form of just air that you can't see, that's attached to the cup by the thinnest of molecules.

Or perhaps not attached. Staying in one piece isn't a requirement for adult Changelings, it seems. And even Odo can cope with being shattered into shards of glass, or shedding flakes all over the floor of a Romulan starship's interrogation room; he just, well, pulls himself together afterward.

But carrying that sort of ballast would be likely to complicate things a bit too much for an underage Changeling who can barely manage the drinking-himself trick. Even if Odo seeped himself onto Rom the moment the Ferengi grabbed the tray, and formed an extra two millimeters on Rom's suit, it would be a feat that would probably involve moments of telltale amber glow.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BennyRussel]

Here's the thing that I could never understand.

How could Odo replicate a communicator?

Every time he returns to humanoid form, his Bajoran communicator always appears on his shirt. Can he assume the form of a complicated piece of communications equipment?

 

[Timo]

He shouldn't be able to. But if he can take mass with him somewhere else (be it around the corner, or into a parallel universe), he could spirit the commbadge there, too. Say, hide it in a lump of air that blends into the background like a chameleon; that ought to be a fairly standard shapeshifter trick.

Or Odo could have psychic powers of obfuscation, much like the Jem'Hadar do: he could make people blind to the presence of a commbadge, or to the fact that he is just an amber glowing lump of goo rather than a humanoid or chair or plant or seagull or whatever.

I still personally prefer the idea that Odo exists partially or wholly in some other realm, and can take commbadges and possibly even people with him into that realm.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I still personally prefer the idea that Odo exists partially or wholly in some other realm, and can take commbadges and possibly even people with him into that realm.

Timo Saloniemi

In the Animorphs series of kids' books, where kids morph into various animals, they have the pseudoscience explanation that the unused mass is extruded into another dimension during the morph. (But in that series, that was part of the reason why you'd get stuck in morph if you exceeded 2 hours.)

 

[Anwar]

That's also the Transformers explanation as well, and Marvel Comics with their own shapeshifters.

Its' just a conceit of the shapeshifter concept, we roll with it.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I still personally prefer the idea that Odo exists partially or wholly in some other realm, and can take commbadges and possibly even people with him into that realm.

Timo Saloniemi

In the Animorphs series of kids' books, where kids morph into various animals, they have the pseudoscience explanation that the unused mass is extruded into another dimension during the morph. (But in that series, that was part of the reason why you'd get stuck in morph if you exceeded 2 hours.)

Amusingly enough, that was the same dimension that interstellar spaceships moved in to travel the stars, so there was a tiny, tiny, tiny risk that your extra mass might (theoretically) get hit by a spacecraft.

Given that subspace is manipulated and moved through and warped and lived in all the time on Trek, I wonder if changelings (if they are shunting mass into subspace) ever experience negative side effects?

On a related topic, anyone want to explain how Changelings go to warp, which Laas seems to have managed...

 

[Anwar]

Apparently, even when they change into gaseous form they are able to maintain their sentience. I guess they're one of those "Our minds are contained in every single cell of our body" types.

 

[Draculasaurus]

Interesting.
It makes sense that Changelings would have access to another "place". They don't eat or absorb sunlight or seem to get energy in any other way.

 

[tafkats]

Hammerspace!

 

[Timo]

I guess they're one of those "Our minds are contained in every single cell of our body" types.

More like "..in none of them" types, as even the finest instruments can't detect any Changeling-ness in those cells.

Shapeshifters in Trek seem to come in two basic varieties. One is the psychic chameleon that makes everybody see what the chameleon wishes to be seen; different people can see different things simultaneously, even. The Salt Vampire is obviously of this type, and the Jem'Hadar are another strong candidate. The other is the physical changer that can slither through a keyhole or stretch to the upper shelf for real, instead of just making it look like it could. Chameloids and Founders seem to fit this bill.

But it's by no means clear that Founders would not be psychic in addition. Perhaps they do remain in the rocks and seagulls, but use their psychic powers to fool all sorts of sensors, or the minds reading those sensors? A bit of a chore, though. But if the Jem'Hadar manage it, why not their masters?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paradon]

Odo has supernatural power given to him by the devine power... That's the only explanation! I think that's the theme on DS9, isn't it. Prophets and gods...al this talk of supernatural being. Kindda like God being borned as Jesus...the whole Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are all the same Being just different parts of Him.

If you are wondering go watch "True Blood" or read Charliene Harris' books! Haha!

 

[zar]

I guess they're one of those "Our minds are contained in every single cell of our body" types.

More like "..in none of them" types, as even the finest instruments can't detect any Changeling-ness in those cells.

After Odo links with the female changeling, he says he understands that the answer to "how many changelings are there" is "one and many, depending on how you look at it". I think this can be taken as evidence that a changeling can split into multiple pieces and have their consciousness in each one.

The finest instruments failed to detect Hortas as life too, didn't they?

 

[WarpCore]

...and the other 199.5 pounds take the form of just air that you can't see, that's attached to the cup by the thinnest of molecules.

Or perhaps not attached. Staying in one piece isn't a requirement for adult Changelings, it seems. And even Odo can cope with being shattered into shards of glass, or shedding flakes all over the floor of a Romulan starship's interrogation room; he just, well, pulls himself together afterward.

The Adversary
SISKO: Then we've got a problem. Any of us could be the changeling. You, Kira, Eddington, even me.
ODO: Not you.
SISKO: What do you mean?
ODO: You're bleeding.
SISKO: I cut my hand when the changeling attacked me.
EDDINGTON: What are you getting at?
ODO: When blood leaves a humanoid body it's still blood. But when any part of me separates from my body
KIRA: It reverts back to a gelatinous state.

The flakes on the floor in The Die Is Cast were due to the device created presumably by the Tal Shiar that emits "a quantum stasis field designed to prevent any changeling from altering his biomolecular structure." Odo can't pull himself back together until it's deactivated.

I don't recall any of the Changelings ever becoming multiple objects at once. It would defeat the whole purpose of 4 seasons of blood screenings. What episode is the 'shards of glass' from?