DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

[Angel4576]

Seven of Nine was a awesome character who is as memorable as Spock.

It's hard to take the rest of your opinion seriously when you open with gems like this.

I see no demise of the Borg as a credible threat. New defenses & technologies came & made the Borg less of a threat, and Seven of Nine just assisted in that process of giving Starfleet a better understanding of the Borg that allowed Starfleet to faster develop new strategies, and technology to better fight the Borg.

The Borg were completely emasculated as a credible threat by the end of Voyager. They were a shadow of their former selves by the shows end. It's a good job that Voyager had other major villains to fall back upon - The Vidiians, the Kazon, Species 8472, the Hirogen - all so memorable. Oh, wait......

If the Borg were to remain static villians forever it would be boring before too long since it would be the same everytime, and that would become contrived very shortly since there would have never been any improvement on defense against them (oh looks its the Borg...Been there done that...wake me up once they finish assimilating us...ZZZZZZZZZ).

That would only ever have happened with over-exposure. The Borg were the most feared adversary on TNG, and they appeared in six episodes, each giving a different slant on the Borg species. Voyager, on the other hand, took them, used them, used them again and again, and again and again. To their credit, they tried to evolve them. To our disappointment, they failed. Spectacularly.

No I am saying that TNG isn't TOS. Voyager was the most similar to the TOS. Voyager was a return the the classic Trek formula. The producers ever said so:

This, and the quotes supplied - Of course what they intended to achieve, and what they actually did, don't always bear any relation to each other.

Voyager was perhaps SUPPOSED to be similar, thematically, to TOS, but in the end, due to its extremely poor execution, you can't really labour that point to much as it comes across as utterly ridiculous.

If Voyager's intent was to recapture the magic of TOS then this is evidence enough that you can't catch lighting in a bottle twice.

 

[MacLeod]

DS9 is the only Star Trek series in history to have done this.

False, Voyager did it as well with Robert Duncan McNeil as I pointed out earlier. You still haven't told us why this is a bad thing.

Ummm you need to check you facts. Robert Duncan McNeil was never as cast member of any series he was a guest star one TNG episode. Also on that episode he played Cadet First Class Nicholas Locarno. Tom Paris was written to be very similar to that previous character Robert Duncan McNeil played (Cadet First Class Nicholas Locarno). The writers decided that they couldn't reuse the same old character because it would create an unnecessary & time consuming backstory that would have been inconvenient.

THANK YOU! COME AGAIN!

I was under imprssion it was so that they didn't have to pay royalties to the creater of Lorcano.

On a side note as some one has mentioned a thread in the VOY forum.

VOY Forum title: Voyager's main problems
DSN Forum Title: DS9 = WOrst Trek Series ever.

To me the former gives the impression of someone wanting to engage in debate the later less so.

 

[Tidus79001]

Seven of Nine was a awesome character who is as memorable as Spock. I see no demise of the Borg as a credible threat. New defenses & technologies came & made the Borg less of a threat, and Seven of Nine just assisted in that process of giving Starfleet a better understanding of the Borg that allowed Starfleet to faster develop new strategies, and technology to better fight the Borg.

TNG changed the Borg with the introduction of the Borg Queen so go blame them for the change that you find unwelcome. Voyager did a awesome job of giving the Borg a real story, depth, backstory, and history. If the Borg were to remain static villians forever it would be boring before too long since it would be the same everytime, and that would become contrived very shortly since there would have never been any improvement on defense against them (oh looks its the Borg...Been there done that...wake me up once they finish assimilating us...ZZZZZZZZZ).

The Borg were completely emasculated as a credible threat by the end of Voyager. They were a shadow of their former selves by the shows end. It's a good job that Voyager had other major villains to fall back upon - The Vidiians, the Kazon, Species 8472, the Hirogen - all so memorable. Oh, wait......

That would only ever have happened with over-exposure. The Borg were the most feared adversary on TNG, and they appeared in six episodes, each giving a different slant on the Borg species. Voyager, on the other hand, took them, used them, used them again and again, and again and again. To their credit, they tried to evolve them. To our disappointment, they failed. Spectacularly.

Nice editing job you did there Sparky! Notice I put eveyting back in context for you. Since you missed it like I previously pointed out TNG changed the Borg with the introduction of the Borg Queen so go blame them for the change that you find so unwelcome.

Also the first change of the Borg was when they emasculated them in TNG episode "I Borg". They then further tarnished the Borg in the TNG two part episode Descent.

 

[Tidus79001]

It's worth doing. I did the same thing and now I really like the show. Your mileage may vary, but it's worth the effort.

Agreed.

Season 4, especially, is just about the best modern Trek could possibly be, and I say that as a huge fan of DS9's last 3 seasons.

I know exactly how you feel about Enterprise. I also couldn't stand Enterprise when I first saw it. I tried watching it in the 1st & 2nd seasons, but didn't get interested. I then tried again in the 3rd season, and liked it & watched it through until the end of the series, and I was disappointed when they canceled it (it deserved to have it 7 seasons & was robbed of its legacy by not getting its last 3 seasons). I then went back, and watched it all the way through from season 1 & found that it wasn't a bad show at all (actually it was quite a good show) & that I had just never given it a fair chance.

I have read the Enterpise books, that have & continue to focus on the Romulan War & found these books to be extremely well written. Reading these books make me realize how much we lost out on when they cancelled Enterprise & cut short by 3 years. The final 2 seasons of Enterprise were quite good in my opinion. These books really show that there really were so many good stories left to be told about the Enterprise NX-02 & Archer's crew.

By season 3 it was too little too late to reverse the damage that had been done, and I am disappointed that I contributed to the demise of the show, and to the Star Trek television franchise.

I would have really enjoyed seeing the "Romulan War" storyline that is in the books be done as episodes during the final 3 seasons that were cut short from Enterprise.

That is why I have been giving DS9 the chance I never gave it by watching it on Netflix. I have started this previously in this post, but no on seems to have taken notice of that. So far it has yet to engage me, but that likely could change, and I actually fully expect that change. I have found that where Trek is involved in regards to myself that resistance is futile.

Hhhhhmmmmm, why did it get so silent in here?

Lets see if anyone actually decides to comment on my last post prior to this one If they do comment can they resist attacking me? Are you going to attack me again for my giving those Star Trek series a second chance?

Waiting...

I will speak my opinion anytime I want. I don't back down to bullies who try to get me to censor myself, or who try to shame me from posting my thoughts, or those that make any sort of threats to me.

You & the trolls on here aren't my first that I have dealt with, and you certainly won't be the last. This "Good Ol' Boys Club" that is here on the Trek BBS of the intolerant, are dismissive, rude, and condescending doesn't impress me in the least bit, nor does it intimidate me at all.

I guess all of you proved my point. No response at all to me giving Enterprise & your vaunted DS9 a second chance. The "Good Ol' Boys Club" here on the Trek BBS only is interested in attacking. It is very telling how that post was totally skipped over so that the Good Ol' Boys Club" network here on the Trek BBS could continue the attacks.

 

[Deckerd]

Why are you quoting yourself? holy macaroni!

 

[The_Baroness]

Agreed.

Season 4, especially, is just about the best modern Trek could possibly be, and I say that as a huge fan of DS9's last 3 seasons.

I know exactly how you feel about Enterprise. I also couldn't stand Enterprise when I first saw it. I tried watching it in the 1st & 2nd seasons, but didn't get interested. I then tried again in the 3rd season, and liked it & watched it through until the end of the series, and I was disappointed when they canceled it (it deserved to have it 7 seasons & was robbed of its legacy by not getting its last 3 seasons). I then went back, and watched it all the way through from season 1 & found that it wasn't a bad show at all (actually it was quite a good show) & that I had just never given it a fair chance.

I have read the Enterpise books, that have & continue to focus on the Romulan War & found these books to be extremely well written. Reading these books make me realize how much we lost out on when they cancelled Enterprise & cut short by 3 years. The final 2 seasons of Enterprise were quite good in my opinion. These books really show that there really were so many good stories left to be told about the Enterprise NX-02 & Archer's crew.

By season 3 it was too little too late to reverse the damage that had been done, and I am disappointed that I contributed to the demise of the show, and to the Star Trek television franchise.

I would have really enjoyed seeing the "Romulan War" storyline that is in the books be done as episodes during the final 3 seasons that were cut short from Enterprise.

That is why I have been giving DS9 the chance I never gave it by watching it on Netflix. I have started this previously in this post, but no on seems to have taken notice of that. So far it has yet to engage me, but that likely could change, and I actually fully expect that change. I have found that where Trek is involved in regards to myself that resistance is futile.

Hhhhhmmmmm, why did it get so silent in here?

Lets see if anyone actually decides to comment on my last post prior to this one If they do comment can they resist attacking me? Are you going to attack me again for my giving those Star Trek series a second chance?

Waiting...

I will speak my opinion anytime I want. I don't back down to bullies who try to get me to censor myself, or who try to shame me from posting my thoughts, or those that make any sort of threats to me.

You & the trolls on here aren't my first that I have dealt with, and you certainly won't be the last. This "Good Ol' Boys Club" that is here on the Trek BBS of the intolerant, are dismissive, rude, and condescending doesn't impress me in the least bit, nor does it intimidate me at all.

I guess all of you proved my point. No response at all to me giving Enterprise & your vaunted DS9 a second chance. The "Good Ol' Boys Club" here on the Trek BBS only is interested in attacking. It is very telling how that post was totally skipped over so that the Good Ol' Boys Club" network here on the Trek BBS could continue the attacks.

You've had no response, because the rest of your posts in this thread have been so troll-ish and misinformed that it's impossible to take you seriously.

 

[Tidus79001]

Why are you quoting yourself? holy macaroni!

Quoting yourself again? Jesus, Dude, narcissist much?

Why should I keep retyping my same points out because people are either too lazy to read them, or too incompetent to realize I have already stated these things earlier the thread.

Nuff said!

 

[Deckerd]

Nuff said!

Well let's bloody well hope so. Continuously quoting yourself is called SPAM. Not only is it tedious it's also against board rules.

 

[Angel4576]

Nice editing job you did there Sparky! Notice I put eveyting back in context for you. Since you missed it like I previously pointed out TNG changed the Borg with the introduction of the Borg Queen so go blame them for the change that you find so unwelcome.

Also the first change of the Borg was when they emasculated them in TNG episode "I Borg". They then further tarnished the Borg in the TNG two part episode Descent.

Except that the events of I Borg and Descent were confined to a specific group of Borg, rather than the whole Collective.

Re the Borg Queen - The Queen isn't the problem, p1ss-poor thinking on the part of Voyager's writers was.

The reason that the Borg were so successful on TNG was that they were only ever sporadically used. Inevitably, at the end of each story the Borg would be beaten. Doing that, whilst not completely undermining their effectiveness as a credible threat is much easier to do when it's 4 stories (5 counting First Contact), than it was across a plethora of stories from Voyager where the single ship continually prevailed. Having Voyager constantly thwart them reached comical proportions by the show's end. They had ceased to exist as a viable threat. And why? Because they had no other choice than to involve the Borg, continually, because they couldn't come up with anything better themselves.

The Borg should only ever have been a passing acquaintance in Voyager. One season, maybe two while they pass through Borg space, and then move on. Instead, they hung around like a bad smell until the end of the show.

 

[Sindatur]

IMO The negative/confrontational nature of the original post and thread title was just a way for the OP to bait Niners into getting defensive over DS9. The OP could have simply stated that he didn't enjoy the few DS9 episodes he had seen and stated the reasons.

Yeah you are right it was baiting. I see many on the Trek BBS bash Voyager, and it fans. Those people are often intolerant, dismissisve, and rude to Voyager fan (especially the Bring Back Janeyway fans). This thread for me was started & intended to be turn about is fair play.

And there's the Trolling confession

And several instances of triple and quadruple posting to boot.

DS9 is my favorite of the Modern Trek Era, I'm actually surprised how frowned upon the Pilot is, I enjoyed it, and though there's a higher ratio of bad to good episodes in the first two seasons, I like alot of what is in those first two seasons.

Voyager had it's moments, from what I saw (religiously watched first two seasons, periodically watched seasons 3-7) but, it never really won me over like DS9 due to the Arc storytelling and character development.

Enterprise, for me was just kind there in S1 and S2, but, S3 showed an improvement, and S4 was fantastic, it was what I was hoping for from the beginning when a TOS prequel was first announced.

But, yea, I'm not going to go out of my to shout these opinions to the rooftops just to bait people, I only bring it up when it's relevent to the topic at hand

 

[TheGodBen]

That is why I have been giving DS9 the chance I never gave it by watching it on Netflix. I have started this previously in this post, but no on seems to have taken notice of that. So far it has yet to engage me, but that likely could change, and I actually fully expect that change. I have found that where Trek is involved in regards to myself that resistance is futile.

The problem you have is that there's no reason for anyone to believe you when you say that you're giving the show a fair chance. Respect doesn't necessarily have to be earned, but it can be lost, and your actions in this thread have certainly expended whatever modicum of respect we would normally have been willing to afford you. If you want our respect now then you'll have to earn it back.

If you had started this thread explaining that you were a Star Trek fan that was trying to get into DS9 but you were finding the first season a bit crap, you would have found a far better reception among fans, because every Niner I've ever met has been willing to admit that the first season contains a substantial quantity of crap. But you didn't do that, you came in here bashing the whole show, including events in the later seasons that it was clear you didn't understand properly. Some of your criticisms were utterly senseless and could easily be applied to your own favourite show, Voyager. Other criticisms were far too broad and consisted of comments like "it's boring" and "the station doesn't go anywhere".

If somebody chose to come into this forum and write up a detailed critical analysis of what they thought was wrong with DS9 I would have no problem with that, it might even lead to an interesting conversation or two. You have so far failed to demonstrate that you are a person capable of writing such an interesting, insightful critique.

Prove me wrong.

 

[nightwind1]

Seven of Nine was a awesome character who is as memorable as Spock.

:g uffaw::guf faw::guffa w:

Oh, wait, you're STILL trying to be serious...

 

[Robert D. Robot]

Yeah you are right it was baiting. I see many on the Trek BBS bash Voyager, and it fans. Those people are often intolerant, dismissisve, and rude to Voyager fan (especially the Bring Back Janeyway fans). This thread for me was started & intended to be turn about is fair play.

Wow! What sad and ridiculous behavior on your part!

Where is the logic in displaying the same irrational & rude behavior that you claim annoys you in others?

We are sorry that some of the mean kids picked on you while on the playground.

Why not choose to act like a grown-up and initiate a real discussion rather than behave like an angry 6 year old?
You don't have to "act like the 'bad' kids, too, ya know"! Jeessh!

 

[zar]

Lets see if anyone actually decides to comment on my last post prior to this one If they do comment can they resist attacking me? Are you going to attack me again for my giving those Star Trek series a second chance?

First of all, this is a contradiction. You open by saying that no one has commented on your previous post (wherein you say you are giving DS9 a second chance), and then you ask if they are going to attack you "again" for doing so. How can they be commenting "again" if they never did in the first place?

Anyway, please point out where anyone has attacked you for giving DS9 a second chance. This is the closest I could find:

He bashed it in his initial post. In a subsequent post he claimed he's going to give it a fair chance at a rewatch. Then he went back to complaining how dumb it is, how awful it is, how he'd rather watch anything else. (As I said earlier, when does the "fair" part come in?)

And this is not an attack on your giving a second chance, it's a questioning of whether you're even doing it in the first place. There's quite a difference. Could you give us any reason to believe that you are besides just saying so over and over?

You're the one who won't comment on our points. We have replied to everything you said in your original post, but all we get in return is you repeating yourself verbatim (literally) and insults... and now you're derailing the thread toward Voyager's treatment of the Borg; what does that have to do with the OP? When are you going to answer my previous post?

 

[Camren]

Maybe Voyager is more your speed, then...

Yep you got it right. Voyager is among some of the best Star Trek ever produced. Right up the with the likes of the Star Trek: The Original Series.

I'm amazed this thread progressed beyond this sentence. Anybody making a statement like this can't be taken seriously and should be treated as a troll or a child out to make a bit of mischief.

 

[nightwind1]

OP reported for admitting to purposely Trolling and for spammishly quoting himself.

 

[Aragorn]

Boo Hoo your feelings are hurt because I don't like DS9, and because I am debating the merits for the quality of the show. Just expressing my opinion. Like I have never seen my favorite show bashed before. Like I said turn about is fair play.

WTF? How old are you? Eight? No one gives a damn what you think about DS9 or any other show. In fact, I'm guessing there more than a few people here who are thankful that someone like you hates DS9.

Even if you were able to form coherent, developed arguments about why you hate the show, it's still just your opinion and doesn't change how anyone else feels about DS9. How pathetic would someone have to be to burst a few blood vessels and freak out in anger over something negative said about a TV show he or she likes? A TV show!!!

Yeah you are right it was baiting. I see many on the Trek BBS bash Voyager, and it fans. Those people are often intolerant, dismissisve, and rude to Voyager fan (especially the Bring Back Janeyway fans). This thread for me was started & intended to be turn about is fair play.

Wasn't trolling. You DS9'ers can't stand a debate regarding the the merits for the quality of the DS9.

If these two posts don't sum up everything about the OP, I don't know what does.

 

[Silvercrest]

They do.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Yeah you are right it was baiting. I see many on the Trek BBS bash Voyager, and it fans. Those people are often intolerant, dismissisve, and rude to Voyager fan (especially the Bring Back Janeyway fans). This thread for me was started & intended to be turn about is fair play.

Let me go find the "Voyager = WORST Star Trek Series EVER" thread posted by an often intolerant, dismissive and rude DS9 fan within the Voyager forum...

(3 minutes later...)

Huh. I can't seem to find it. Weird. Maybe you can find and post a link to it?

Because, I can find no evidence that DS9 fans are so intolerant, dismissive, or rude as to post such a thread in the Voyager forum. Sure, some of them post their (sometimes controversial) opinions in various pre-existing threads, but I don't see the levels of intolerance and ignorance that you are accusing DS9 fans of. You are however simultaneously heavily exhibiting them yourself.

 

[Lindley]

Voyager does take a beating around these parts, it's fair to say. Probably more than it deserves.

However, the criticisms leveled at it are mostly fair and worth discussing. Most shows can be validly criticized for one thing or another.

Part of the problem with this thread is that the criticisms are just so weak. "The station doesn't go anywhere"? Really? If that's the best you've got, that's nothing. It's a different form of storytelling but not an inherently inferior one. It's like criticizing Shakespeare for not using modern-day vernacular. It's true, but not really valid as a complaint.