Ensign Harry Kim

[Vanyel]

According to his article in Memory Alpha, which list two episodes as reference, Kim graduated Valedictorian.

In TNG's Q Who, Ensign Gomez was chosen for assignment to Enterprise due to her graduation thesis and presumed excellence in her field of study.

In DS9 Bashir graduated Salutatorian, and claimed to have his pick of assignments.

So why did Kim get a small ship like Voyager when he could have gotten a posting on a Galaxy class or Starbase?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Section head.

The ship was so small Kim may not have even had a staff, but then there's expediency to consider that he wanted to be a Section head NOW. Which means that Voyager must have been the first ship with a completely open section head job that didn't have a bustle of junior officers rushing to fill the void.

He gets to be his own boss.

If he does well on Voyager, he graduates to being a section head on a larger ship, and he might even have a staff.

What was Kim's excuse for losing out on the Voyager posting to Daniel Byrd in that other Time Stream?

And then waht was his next dream job?

"Shuttle design" on Earth?

Kim might have been good at the boioks but the lad had no vision or delight thinking about his future.

 

[Relayer1]

What exactly are valedictorian and salutatorian ? Awards for finishing top of your class presumably ?

 

[Guy Gardener]

They make a big deal about it in America.

Both of them give a commencement speech at graduation.

There might be a cash prize?

But it looks damn good on a resume.

 

[tighr]

What exactly are valedictorian and salutatorian ? Awards for finishing top of your class presumably ?

First and Second in your graduating class. It's like graduating summa cum laude, or magna cum laude.

 

[exodus]

According to his article in Memory Alpha, which list two episodes as reference, Kim graduated Valedictorian.

In TNG's Q Who, Ensign Gomez was chosen for assignment to Enterprise due to her graduation thesis and presumed excellence in her field of study.

In DS9 Bashir graduated Salutatorian, and claimed to have his pick of assignments.

So why did Kim get a small ship like Voyager when he could have gotten a posting on a Galaxy class or Starbase?

I asumed he did it for the same reasons as Bashir. Bashir picked DS9 because it was on the brink of unexplored territory, so he'd be the first to see and experience new things. Since Voyager was going to be exploring beyond charted AQ space, he'd be the first to see new worlds and boldly go where we haven't before. That vision became extreme being thrown into the DQ but I think that's why he'd pick Voyager.

Plus, the Intrepid class was a new class of ship. He could also gain status by being one of the first new crew men on a brand new ship. So he's already being exposed to something nobody else in Starfleet would yet.

 

[Guy Gardener]

UM?

Explore new worlds?

Voyagers bag was about Short range tactical missions.

Bagging (yes I know.) Chakotay was supposed to be a two week mission, and then Voyager would probably cosy up to a Starbase and swap out half her crew if we believe some of the commentary from Good Shepherd, head out for another 2 week mission, and then run back to another starbase.

 

[tighr]

Agreed.

Voyager was not a long-range ship. Otherwise it would have been larger and held more specialized personal, such as a counselor and astrometrics. (Both specifically mentioned on the show).

 

[exodus]

Could have sworn in "Relitivity" and "Someone to Watch Over Me", the Intrepid class was described as a deep space exploration vessel. Chakotay in "Innocence" describes Voyager's new type of warp engine something made for a ship that going to be out on it's own for long periods because it takes energy and concentrates it. it co Upon encountering the Borg, Starfleet wasn't investing in larger ships anymore. Also, doesn't the type of crew depend on what the ships function is? From what we've seen, Voyager is all bridge(an on going joke in the series), cargo bays and only has one lab. Aren't the main ships we see featured as the main vessels supposed to be doing what they were designed for? Isn't Deep Space 9 meant to describe location? The premiere add for it said: "it sits on the edge of the finial frontier" , wouldn't that be deep space? If Voyager is meant to scout beyond point, would it be a deep space exploration vessel? Seems that's how those in charge were setting it up for us.

Whatever Voyager was, the series IMO showed that it holds up as a deep space vessel. Whoever designed her, sure thought long term.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Someone to watch over me

NEELIX: Voyager's an Intrepid class Starship with a crew of one hundred and forty six, designed for long-term exploration. I thought we'd start with a tour of our primary systems. First stop, Engineering.
TOMIN: I was hoping I might sample a food item I noted earlier in your data files. Hasperat.
NEELIX: It's a Bajoran dish, very spicy. I believe that your dietary protocols prohibit flavourful foods.
TOMIN: I want to broaden my palate while I'm here, in the interest of better understanding.
NEELIX: In that case, first stop, Mess hall.

If there's one thing I learnt form Caretaker, it's that Neelix lies.

It's not like it's in their interest to tell people that they are weak and vulnerable and Voyager was not designed for the clusterfuck they had found themselves in?

CHAKOTAY: What's it doing in the Delta Quadrant?
SEVEN: Perhaps it's searching for Voyager.
JANEWAY: The Equinox is a Nova class ship. It was designed for planetary research, not long-range tactical missions.
SEVEN: I've got their co-ordinates. Heading two five eight mark twelve.

If looking for Voyager is a "Long Range tactical mission" then logically at least anything less than a year out of Federation Space, hells, even known space is still a Short Range Tactical mission.

 

[exodus]

Someone to watch over me

NEELIX: Voyager's an Intrepid class Starship with a crew of one hundred and forty six, designed for long-term exploration. I thought we'd start with a tour of our primary systems. First stop, Engineering.
TOMIN: I was hoping I might sample a food item I noted earlier in your data files. Hasperat.
NEELIX: It's a Bajoran dish, very spicy. I believe that your dietary protocols prohibit flavourful foods.
TOMIN: I want to broaden my palate while I'm here, in the interest of better understanding.
NEELIX: In that case, first stop, Mess hall.

If there's one thing I learnt form Caretaker, it's that Neelix lies.

It's not like it's in their interest to tell people that they are weak and vulnerable and Voyager was not designed for the clusterfuck they had found themselves in?

The flaw in that is, he was acting as Ambassador and they were defenseless monks. They weren't looking to go to war with them, they were trading crew to secure supplies. Neelix also recieved a firm warning from Janeway in "Fair Trade" about continuing to lie. Since that moment, he quit with his deceptions.

 

[tighr]

If there's one thing I learnt form Caretaker, it's that Neelix lies.

It's not like it's in their interest to tell people that they are weak and vulnerable and Voyager was not designed for the clusterfuck they had found themselves in?

The other, more obvious, answer to this question is that the writers are idiots and never reviewed their series bible when they make their characters say stupid things.

 

[exodus]

If there's one thing I learnt form Caretaker, it's that Neelix lies.

It's not like it's in their interest to tell people that they are weak and vulnerable and Voyager was not designed for the clusterfuck they had found themselves in?

The other, more obvious, answer to this question is that the writers are idiots and never reviewed their series bible when they make their characters say stupid things.

It just means they tweaked things while in production.
No different that they did with the Cardassias uniforms from TNG into DS9 and all the "facts" made about the Trill in TNG than were all but forgotten in DS9. Same as the implications of Sisko's father maybe being dead to see him alive and semi-well.

 

[JB2005]

Kim was a mummy's boy, we saw that all through Voyager...maybe it was her bidding that he signed on to the ship that was only going to be out for two weeks? Maybe in the alternate reality she was more forceful and that's why he stayed on Earth?

I mean lets face it, poor Quincy's assistant fell through the time vortex, landed in the 24th century, made a name for himself as a "tac officer" out on the frontier, running weird tests to get into the Academy, but as soon as he married Mrs Kim, he had to retire, go back to Earth and be available to answer the phone with her every time it rang!

It's the mother, mark my words!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Neelix lied through his teeth to pick up that Klingon fluff in Prophecy.

Does lying to a woman count?

 

[JB2005]

Neelix lied through his teeth to pick up that Klingon fluff in Prophecy.

Does lying to a woman count?

Only if she finds out in my experience

 

[Guy Gardener]

You don't assume they think we don't know how to tell the truth?

I say, they know and they don't care, because if we don't lie, they don't get the sweet loving.

The mating dance.

So beautiful.

 

[Harvey]

It just means they tweaked things while in production. No different that they did with the Cardassias uniforms from TNG into DS9 and all the "facts" made about the Trill in TNG than were all but forgotten in DS9. Same as the implications of Sisko's father maybe being dead to see him alive and semi-well.

It seems slightly different to me. The Cardassian uniforms in "The Wounded" changed because they had more money for "Emissary," which was a series pilot. There's also no reason to assume that the Cardassians simply didn't change the design between episodes.

The thing about Sisko's father is simply fans making an assumption based on a line of dialogue that later turned out to be false. Sisko never said he was dead, after all, just spoke of his father in the past tense (something he would do even after we saw that Joseph was alive).

The Trill were totally a changed premise, but one that was done at the outset of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine because (1) the original make-up would have looked horrible on Farrell and (2) the story restrictions of no transporting would have been limiting to the format, without any story benefit. They really should have just chosen a different species name, but that was never changed, for whatever reason.

And then on Star Trek: Voyager...the writers ignored the premise that they set out with in the first place. If it wasn't going to work for the series (or, more to the point, if they weren't going to stick to it) then don't establish it in the first place. Of course, it doesn't make sense that a ship of Voager's size and crew compliment would be a long-term exploration vessel, because the remnants of that original premise remained in place for seven seasons.

 

[tighr]

Even if you use the excuse that it would have been cost prohibitive to re-do the CGI every week to reflect damages, there are other things they can do. Set damage, plotlines, shoot, even crew deaths. Even in NuBSG, they kept having to recruit new pilots to replace the ones that died. Its just not plausible that they would make it 7 years and only lose a handful of people. They also should have picked up tons of new crew, expatriates and curious travelers, not just Neelix and 7 of 9 (who's conveniently human anyway).

 

[Harvey]

It certainly would have been interesting (not to mention, more believable) to see a few minor characters have to re-train in unfamiliar fields because of casualties. Every time Tuvok loses a Security Officer, for example, that would mean an extra burden on the crew in that department, unless others could be trained to replace them.

The series completely ignored these issues, though, choosing to treat Voyager's small and irreplaceable crew as an inexhaustible (and anonymous) resource. That's a shame.