The Jedi were hunted down for a time because the invading Yuuzhan Vong were keen on eliminating one of their most effective counters. Basically, there were a significant number of appeasers who thought that by destroying their droids and handing over Jedi, they could convince the Vong to spare them. Usually didn't work, but that's how fear is.
Star Wars Underground (Live Action Series)
- Thread starter Admiral_Young
- Start date
Sorry, but no matter how often Lucas describes it that way, I just don't buy it. Judging from what is on screen, the OT is, and always will be, the story of Luke Skywalker. He's the one we watch grow and struggle every step of the way, and whose journey we emotionally connect with.
Vader is in the background for most of those movies, and does little more than give out orders or look sinister. Just because Luke's journey now mirrors Anakin's in some ways, or Anakin has a redemptive moment at the very end, doesn't suddenly make this whole thing "Anakin's Story."
"The Secret History of Star Wars" would tell you another version of how Lucas has described Star Wars until the last few years. I believe it posits that it wasn't until the prequel films happened that Lucas started describing the saga as the rise and downfall of Anakin Skywalker. Prior to this it was Luke's tale.
Right. Storytelling has rules. It's not just some guy arbitrarily saying "this is true, that is true." The fact that Lucas doesn't even know what the rules of good storytelling are, is apparent in the PT because he makes incredibly basic mistakes. Even the worst schlock action movies generally get basic stuff right. The PT is a truly unusual case of storytelling that is bad right down to the bones.
The story of the OT is about a kid who goes on a naive journey to kill the bad guy. The story pivots when he realizes that his quest is actually an internal one, to defeat evil within himself by forgiving it in his father. Luke triumphs in the end by triumphing over himself. Vader is at first the antagonist and then the object of Luke's journey. He's never the subject of the story, and Anakin doesn't even appear until the very end. That simply cannot be "Anakin's story."
But there's a more important issue here: what should the story of Star Wars be, in order to accomplish the right things, ie, more stories for us and more money for Lucasfilm? It should be something that lets the show go on, rather than stop it. Stopping the show helps no one. Those who object to what the show has become and think the show should not go on can feel free to ignore it. More money and more fun always trumps no money and no fun.
With the right direction, I see no reason why talented actors can't be effective, even with a green screen. Lucas' inert direction was the problem with the PT. The poor actors can't just improv their way through a scene.
I've believed for a while now that Ahsoka was originally created with the intent she was going to be [the] main character of the live action series. Or perhaps her and a young Mon Mothma.
Because I don't think the ever intended to kill her on CW, intended audience or not, it's still a cartoon.
And even the Star Wars "underworld" is still Star Wars, and you just can't have Star Wars with a Jedi. Even if they could rope Mcgregor/Oz into once a season appearances, there'd still be a huge gap to fill. They'd want to use someone established without having to dive too deep into the literary EU. Given all that, who else is there?
Plus, who wouldn't want to see some reverse shien dual-wield action in all it's glory?
Actually, if SWTOR continues to be a success, I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of OR series (TV, web, whatever) before the live action show.
Recent scuttlebutt has suggested Blur is in the works to do another one of their extended "trailers". In fact, it might become a semi-regular thing. And they've been so good that it they my simply evolve into something more.
Most importantly, the worlds of OR offer something that the rest of the EU never has: all the lore and mythos of Star Wars not bogged down or tethered to any of the films--which is the single biggest problem with 99% of it. It's really a writer's dream.
What OT have you been watching?
Here's a literature 101 lesson for you: protagonist =/= main character.
McCallum talks a little bit more about Underworld...
http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/McCallum_Talks_LiveAction_Series_Again_142980.asp
Lucas has said that Ahsoka was created for the Clone Wars series so that kids watching would have a character to connect with and relate to. The live action series doesn't seem targeted towards kids.
http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/McCallum_Talks_LiveAction_Series_Again_142980.asp
Lucas has said that Ahsoka was created for the Clone Wars series so that kids watching would have a character to connect with and relate to. The live action series doesn't seem targeted towards kids.
Your point being...???
Luke IS the main character.
Also the fact that the Original Trilogy had the Sub-Label 'The Adventures of Luke Skywalker' for quite a while, clearly shows that Luke is the Protagonist.
Also, there's a little thing called Common Sense... It's generally useful when trying to figure out who the Main Character is in movie.
Last edited:
How is the protagonist not the main character in the OT?
What is an example of a story in which the protagonist and main character are different? (I'm sure stories like that exist, I just can't think of an example right now.)
Anakin is neither main character nor protagonist in the OT. Anakin isn't even in the OT until the very end, so that rules him out pretty conclusively. You can't be part of a story that you're not actually in.
However, this debate got me thinking - it's perfectly possible that the events of the OT could be restructured into a story where Anakin or at least Vader/Anakin, thought of as a single character, is the main character/protagonist.
That would be a different story than the OT we actually got, and would require three completely different movies to be made, but just as an interesting exercise, let's see how that would work.
First off, we need to get the guy into the story to begin with. It's still unclear exactly how much of Anakin was present in Vader. Was he completely submerged? Was part of his personality present, and if so, what part?
This all has to do with the still-fuzzy issue of exactly how much mind control the dark side exerts - the Mortis Arc depicted Ahsoka as totally controlled but Anakin only partly controlled, so maybe being the Chosen One makes him somewhat immune to its effects.
So the first job of the New OT is to establish that, yes, Anakin is still present in Vader's consciousness, and to further clarify just how much of him is in there. The New OT will have to treat Vader as more than just this really cool cipher in black armor. It will have to stick with him in scenes that give us a solid understanding of who this new character - Vader/Anakin - really is.
This is going to be tricky because he's gotta do a lot more than stomp around, shake his fist and force-choke people. He's got to have dialogue that clues us into who exactly is under that body armor, and it makes no sense that he'd be spilling his guts to the Emperor or some hapless Stormtrooper, so I guess he's going to have to spend a lot of time talking to himself.
Maybe there can be scenes that delve into his consciousness while he's meditating. Maybe his mind travels to Mortis or some such. Anyway, that's a creative problem that can be solved somehow.
For purposes of discussion, I'm happy to regard Vader/Anakin as simply an iteration of Anakin, rather than a completely new character. However, we're talking about TCW's Anakin, not the PT Anakin, because there's simply no way to graft a whiny little bitch onto Vader's character and have anything coherent as a result.
After that, we need to see the events of the OT from Vader/Anakin's perspective. That might involve events that are completely new. What was relevant from Luke/Leia/Han's perspective won't necessarily be the same as what's relevant for Vader/Anakin's story.
This could be a very good story, and would make a good animated series - to finally tell us what was really going on under all that body armor. I don't see why we can't have a parallel story of the further adventures of Luke/Leia/Han. One series could alternate between perspectives perfectly well, just as TCW alternates between the stories of several characters.
What is an example of a story in which the protagonist and main character are different? (I'm sure stories like that exist, I just can't think of an example right now.)
Anakin is neither main character nor protagonist in the OT. Anakin isn't even in the OT until the very end, so that rules him out pretty conclusively. You can't be part of a story that you're not actually in.
However, this debate got me thinking - it's perfectly possible that the events of the OT could be restructured into a story where Anakin or at least Vader/Anakin, thought of as a single character, is the main character/protagonist.
That would be a different story than the OT we actually got, and would require three completely different movies to be made, but just as an interesting exercise, let's see how that would work.
First off, we need to get the guy into the story to begin with. It's still unclear exactly how much of Anakin was present in Vader. Was he completely submerged? Was part of his personality present, and if so, what part?
This all has to do with the still-fuzzy issue of exactly how much mind control the dark side exerts - the Mortis Arc depicted Ahsoka as totally controlled but Anakin only partly controlled, so maybe being the Chosen One makes him somewhat immune to its effects.
So the first job of the New OT is to establish that, yes, Anakin is still present in Vader's consciousness, and to further clarify just how much of him is in there. The New OT will have to treat Vader as more than just this really cool cipher in black armor. It will have to stick with him in scenes that give us a solid understanding of who this new character - Vader/Anakin - really is.
This is going to be tricky because he's gotta do a lot more than stomp around, shake his fist and force-choke people. He's got to have dialogue that clues us into who exactly is under that body armor, and it makes no sense that he'd be spilling his guts to the Emperor or some hapless Stormtrooper, so I guess he's going to have to spend a lot of time talking to himself.
Maybe there can be scenes that delve into his consciousness while he's meditating. Maybe his mind travels to Mortis or some such. Anyway, that's a creative problem that can be solved somehow.For purposes of discussion, I'm happy to regard Vader/Anakin as simply an iteration of Anakin, rather than a completely new character. However, we're talking about TCW's Anakin, not the PT Anakin, because there's simply no way to graft a whiny little bitch onto Vader's character and have anything coherent as a result.
After that, we need to see the events of the OT from Vader/Anakin's perspective. That might involve events that are completely new. What was relevant from Luke/Leia/Han's perspective won't necessarily be the same as what's relevant for Vader/Anakin's story.
This could be a very good story, and would make a good animated series - to finally tell us what was really going on under all that body armor. I don't see why we can't have a parallel story of the further adventures of Luke/Leia/Han. One series could alternate between perspectives perfectly well, just as TCW alternates between the stories of several characters.
It's obvious that Ahsoka was aimed at kids, but I'm surprised at the degree to which she's a successful character even for grownup viewers. She's certainly worth following as she grows up, and at that point, she'd be too old to be a kid-oriented character anyway. The series can change audiences as the character's appeal evolves.
Once again I highly recommend that people google and read "The Secret History of Star Wars".
Pfft...
Been there, done that, wrote a high grade essay including it, extensively conversed with the author, got the t-shirt...
^ Really? You conversed with the author? That's awesome.
If done right this could make an awesome TV show. I recall that they asked Russell T. Davies to write for them but he turned it down as he was working on a new project himself. He did say he liked what he heard, though.
This show could also end up being an AotC level disaster but I'll hold out hope.
This show could also end up being an AotC level disaster but I'll hold out hope.
Last I heard the series was strongly rumoured to be about Boba Fett.
As far as Jedi/Sith goes, I don't see a series set in the time of the Empire - when all the Jedi are either dead or in hiding - and focusing on the criminal underworld to have a huge element of either. Wouldn't surprise me if the show has stories about Jedis in hiding or Vader doing a guest stint but I would be surprised if either was the focus of the series.
Right, but it's also something that Lucas (to my knowledge) has had very little to do with. There's been Star Wars material set in various pasts or futures of the universe, but Lucas' interest has mostly revolved around the film era (although he did sketch out backstory, like Darth Bane).
Since Lucas is still pretty involved with the TV end of Star Wars, I expect TOR will continue to exist in its own bubble. CGI trailers, sure, webisodes, why not, but a live action TV show would surprise me.
Well that's the problem-- the whole point of Vader was that the Dark Side had turned him into this cold, heartless agent of evil, whose only purpose was to enforce the Emperor's will. There shouldn't be any "character" there to explore-- at least not until Luke starts to break through towards the end.
We might be able to read more into his character beforehand, or see some small trace of humanity there, but I wouldn't want the movies to explore it any further than that.
Yeah. Not in person mind you, as we live on different sides of the globe. But, he's part of another forum I'm on (originaltrilogy.com).
There was a bunch of things to do with text sources, page numbers, paragraphs and what-not, concerning George Lucas' speech to the library of congress, that I needed for me to include in my essay bibliography. I needed the text to really drive home a point I was making. He was able to help me out.
He's a pretty cool dude. I think he runs or is at least part another site called savestarwars.com (Which I advise everyone to check out.)
Similar threads
