Is it wrong I can actually hear those lines being delivered with the proper Cimmerian (Austrian) accent?
What is important...
- Thread starter Loken
- Start date
Re collaboration: here's how I work. If this works for you, great. If it doesn't, fine.
BRAINSTORMING & WRITING
Depending on the project, brainstorming can be open to pretty much anyone who's on the team at that point. For one short film I did I we had 10 people batting around ideas, and when they left, three of us did the actual writing, culling the material down to what we thought was useful and workable. For the next one, it was pretty much three of us batting around ideas and then me writing it. On others, it's me or me and my writing partner doing all the legwork through the first draft or two without much outside input.
My usual writing partner is a trained actor, so our usual drill is that each time we sit down to write, he does a read of the material from our previous session to a) see if it sounds okay and b) to get us back into the groove of where we left off.
REVIEWING & REVISING
Once the script feels relatively solid, I arrange a table read with a bunch of my actor friends and we run the script a few times to see how it sounds. And, to further mix it up, I tend to have the actors switch parts from read to read because sometimes a line sounds wrong from one actor and sounds terrific from someone else who takes a different approach. Notes from that table read usually influence dialog changes or story point changes.
I'll iterate with this process in order to address as much as possible on the page long before the clock is ticking on a set where time is everything.
INPUT ON THE SET
My main rule on set is that "Only the Director gives the actors direction and notes can only come from the Director or other actors". If someone else on the crew has a suggestion for the acting, I insist that they tell it to the Director, who will decide if it's something the actors should try. The Director is the filter. (It's easy to forget, having been a Director myself, and I caught myself occasionally directly giving actors some suggestions on Polaris where I was the A.D. when I should have only given them to Dennis as he was Herr Director. Bad me.)
I don't agree that all suggestions should go through a "chain of command" because then what happens is that a Grip has a great idea about something that the Director never hears because her supervisor doesn't like it or pass it on. If as Director you're going to be open to suggestions from everyone you can't then give department heads the job of deciding if you should hear the idea. On Polaris I asked people to give their suggestions to me (the A.D.) and I would relay them to Dennis unfiltered, but at a moment that wouldn't interrupt his work flow.
That said, suggestions relating to a specific department should go to that department head and not to the Director. For instance, if someone has a thought about the lighting, that should probably go to the D.P. It all depends on the dynamic the Director wants on set.
IT'S THE TIME IT TAKES TO TALK BETWEEN THE TAKES...
One of my favorite memories of the original Polaris shoot was when I approached Dennis and suggested a bit of coverage he might want to get, and he said, "No," and then was going to explain his reasons, and I said, essentially, "My job is to make sure you have all the options put before you, but you don't need to explain your decisions to me, you're the director." Since time is the one thing we're usually shortest of on low/no-budget films, we try not to waste any of it on unnecessary conversations.
Oh, sure, there were other moments where I felt it was necessary to understand his reasoning because I felt we'd be missing something important, and in those cases I'd ask for more detail so I could understand what his thinking was. But, otherwise, I'd just say, "I just want to point out this option" and leave him to decide yay or nay.
BRAINSTORMING & WRITING
Depending on the project, brainstorming can be open to pretty much anyone who's on the team at that point. For one short film I did I we had 10 people batting around ideas, and when they left, three of us did the actual writing, culling the material down to what we thought was useful and workable. For the next one, it was pretty much three of us batting around ideas and then me writing it. On others, it's me or me and my writing partner doing all the legwork through the first draft or two without much outside input.
My usual writing partner is a trained actor, so our usual drill is that each time we sit down to write, he does a read of the material from our previous session to a) see if it sounds okay and b) to get us back into the groove of where we left off.
REVIEWING & REVISING
Once the script feels relatively solid, I arrange a table read with a bunch of my actor friends and we run the script a few times to see how it sounds. And, to further mix it up, I tend to have the actors switch parts from read to read because sometimes a line sounds wrong from one actor and sounds terrific from someone else who takes a different approach. Notes from that table read usually influence dialog changes or story point changes.
I'll iterate with this process in order to address as much as possible on the page long before the clock is ticking on a set where time is everything.
INPUT ON THE SET
My main rule on set is that "Only the Director gives the actors direction and notes can only come from the Director or other actors". If someone else on the crew has a suggestion for the acting, I insist that they tell it to the Director, who will decide if it's something the actors should try. The Director is the filter. (It's easy to forget, having been a Director myself, and I caught myself occasionally directly giving actors some suggestions on Polaris where I was the A.D. when I should have only given them to Dennis as he was Herr Director. Bad me.)
I don't agree that all suggestions should go through a "chain of command" because then what happens is that a Grip has a great idea about something that the Director never hears because her supervisor doesn't like it or pass it on. If as Director you're going to be open to suggestions from everyone you can't then give department heads the job of deciding if you should hear the idea. On Polaris I asked people to give their suggestions to me (the A.D.) and I would relay them to Dennis unfiltered, but at a moment that wouldn't interrupt his work flow.
That said, suggestions relating to a specific department should go to that department head and not to the Director. For instance, if someone has a thought about the lighting, that should probably go to the D.P. It all depends on the dynamic the Director wants on set.
IT'S THE TIME IT TAKES TO TALK BETWEEN THE TAKES...
One of my favorite memories of the original Polaris shoot was when I approached Dennis and suggested a bit of coverage he might want to get, and he said, "No," and then was going to explain his reasons, and I said, essentially, "My job is to make sure you have all the options put before you, but you don't need to explain your decisions to me, you're the director." Since time is the one thing we're usually shortest of on low/no-budget films, we try not to waste any of it on unnecessary conversations.
Oh, sure, there were other moments where I felt it was necessary to understand his reasoning because I felt we'd be missing something important, and in those cases I'd ask for more detail so I could understand what his thinking was. But, otherwise, I'd just say, "I just want to point out this option" and leave him to decide yay or nay.
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Whatever it was, I probably shouldn't have said "no."
One of my favorite memories on Polaris was when I was telling the DP to just set up to get what would have been a pretty flat angle on Nick and Case for a dialogue exchange, and Maurice came along and suggested a different shot that made for a more interesting angle on the actors and really opened up the set in a new way - now it's one of our favorite shots from that week, and it's the one that Nick uses part of in his avatar here.
One of my favorite memories on Polaris was when I was telling the DP to just set up to get what would have been a pretty flat angle on Nick and Case for a dialogue exchange, and Maurice came along and suggested a different shot that made for a more interesting angle on the actors and really opened up the set in a new way - now it's one of our favorite shots from that week, and it's the one that Nick uses part of in his avatar here.
Oh I love that shot. I actually look good in it. 
Loken
Lieutenant Commander
EXACTLY. It all depends on your people and the process you put in place. Collaboration is always good. But too much can cause problems. That was my whole point.
And Maurice, WELL SAID! Bravo!
Alec
Here's what we did on Intrepid, take it or leave it as you will.
None of us had any professional training or experience (obviously) so we pretty much made things up as we went along, learning what worked and what didn't (for us). Since I was writing the script, I made a conscious decision to tailor everyone's characters to best suit their abilities. Most of the cast didn't have any acting experience (those who did only had stage experience and weren't professionally trained), so I tried to give them stuff to do that would play on existing relationships between the actors, in the hope that it would be easier for them to put themselves in the moment, and hopefully turn in a more natural performance. I think, for the most part, it worked.
As far as the script, I mostly bounced ideas off Steve who was directing (and is a pretty talented writer whose judgement I trusted, and who wouldn't be afraid to tell me I was wrong). Everyone would chip in with ideas at read throughs, and if they had useful suggestions I'd take them onboard. If they weren't useful, I had no issue with saying no (and often did). Nobody objected if I said no, though they didn't always agree. Regardless, there was an understanding that the final decisions sat with Steve and I, and once we'd made a decision it was time to move on. When it came to shoots, the same applied, and we usually tried to give folks a chance to chip in (within reason). That said, I suspect there are times we probably missed good suggestions due to time constraints.
Steve spent a lot of time looking at movies and seeing how shots were framed, and how scenes in various movies and TV shows were cut so he could apply that to how he framed his own shots, and how he cut the final video together.
Ultimately, I don't think we did too horribly for a bunch of amateurs with no experience, training or professional kit. But I'd be an idiot to think anything we've produced could compete with even the lowest of budget professional productions. That said, we very quickly learned what works and what doesn't, even if we couldn't always put it into practice.
And while I would agree that a professionally trained actor or writer has a huge advantage, that does not mean those who lack that advantage are universally unprofessional or lacklustre in their work.
None of us had any professional training or experience (obviously) so we pretty much made things up as we went along, learning what worked and what didn't (for us). Since I was writing the script, I made a conscious decision to tailor everyone's characters to best suit their abilities. Most of the cast didn't have any acting experience (those who did only had stage experience and weren't professionally trained), so I tried to give them stuff to do that would play on existing relationships between the actors, in the hope that it would be easier for them to put themselves in the moment, and hopefully turn in a more natural performance. I think, for the most part, it worked.
As far as the script, I mostly bounced ideas off Steve who was directing (and is a pretty talented writer whose judgement I trusted, and who wouldn't be afraid to tell me I was wrong). Everyone would chip in with ideas at read throughs, and if they had useful suggestions I'd take them onboard. If they weren't useful, I had no issue with saying no (and often did). Nobody objected if I said no, though they didn't always agree. Regardless, there was an understanding that the final decisions sat with Steve and I, and once we'd made a decision it was time to move on. When it came to shoots, the same applied, and we usually tried to give folks a chance to chip in (within reason). That said, I suspect there are times we probably missed good suggestions due to time constraints.
Steve spent a lot of time looking at movies and seeing how shots were framed, and how scenes in various movies and TV shows were cut so he could apply that to how he framed his own shots, and how he cut the final video together.
Ultimately, I don't think we did too horribly for a bunch of amateurs with no experience, training or professional kit. But I'd be an idiot to think anything we've produced could compete with even the lowest of budget professional productions. That said, we very quickly learned what works and what doesn't, even if we couldn't always put it into practice.
And while I would agree that a professionally trained actor or writer has a huge advantage, that does not mean those who lack that advantage are universally unprofessional or lacklustre in their work.
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TOTALLY agree!
Also in total agreement. On the last two stage productions that I directed, there was a great deal of collaboration from my cast and I welcomed it. All I ask from my actors is that they think about their characters and where they are in that particular moment. How would they behave in that situation, knowing who their character is and how they're supposed to behave given what they have developed with that character. I'm constantly reminding my actors that they need to keep in mind that with everything they do, there is an underlying subtext. So, with that in mind, the actor might have some interesting insight that I might not have considered, so I always say, "Ok, let's try it that way and see what happens." I find that in the collaborative process there are allways things to discover. I also try to not take the process too seriously; in being silly or fun there is also an avenue for further discovery as well. Never be afraid of alternatives. Only once have I had an actor quit because she couldn't wrap her mind around this "organic" process because she had always worked with directors who micromanaged her craft, and this level of free creativity was simply too much for her to deal with. The rest of the cast was like, "Is she crazy?? You're letting us create here!" But I let her go because this simply was not inside her comfort zone. If you aren't comfortable, you can't be creative.
Loken
Lieutenant Commander
You guys did it right. The fun and enthusiasm really came through in the production. And you seem to have struck the right balance in collaboration department.
Alec
Thanks we tried. We dropped the ball a lot, and even to this day there's stuff we fall down on, but we continue to try and grow with each new video.
The two biggest learning tools for me, are being on other peoples' sets and seeing how they work (which always reminds me of my shortcomings), and our mistakes.
The two biggest learning tools for me, are being on other peoples' sets and seeing how they work (which always reminds me of my shortcomings), and our mistakes.
Loken
Lieutenant Commander
Oh yeah, being on set is critical. I was lucky, I was on the set of Battlestar Galactica for 3 months when we were prepping the first BSG auction. I got to be friends with every department head and learned a ton. I would visit the set every day.
So then when I went to Phase II, I saw how the top of the line fan film was made. Of course a totally different dynamic. A fan film is WAY more fun. But again, a little organization will reduce the stress. And everyone there was pretty open to what needed to be done better. Just because they were at the top of the food chain, they didn't feel like they couldn't do better. I got to take a ton of notes. And James Cawley will tell you anything you want to know. He doesn't mind sharing his insights.
I just became friends with Craig from Secret Voyage and it was a lot of fun comparing notes. Sharing insights and helping each other is a great way to learn. I will be back on the set of P2 this summer helping James, and I will help Craig with whatever he wants, since he is in Vegas, and I am in SoCal. I already reached out to David Gerrold and introduced him to Ajax in case they want David to direct their episode.
It would be nice if everyone was open to sharing that way. ;-)
Alec
And their mistakes.
I've learned from every shoot I've ever been on, even the bad ones. Learning from mistakes is key.
Loken
Lieutenant Commander
Absolutely agree. You learn from both your mistakes and others, as well as by modeling success.
Alec
Every mistake you avoid by seeing it happen somewhere is a treasure beyond price. It won't stop you from making your own (unfortunately) but anything that keeps you from trying to reinvent the wheel is going to be worth the time spent on someone else's set.
Indeed it would. I'd love to find some folks over with the right connections, experience and equipment to help us out on a regular basis, but I think we're just in the wrong place.
That said, we have had some help from folks who came to interview us. The two girls from ZDF (whose names escape me right now) and Ric Forster (who was with the UK Sci Fi Channel at the time) were generous with their advice, and in Ric's case even came to help out on a shoot (at his own expense).
Well, you know, if the airfare and dropped into my lap I'd direct an episode for ya, Nick.
Speaking of what's important,one thing that I think is very important is to put every bit of effort you can into making the film good instead of promoting it when it's still a zygote. A number of fans spend a great deal of effort creating trailers and complicated websites. Me, I'd rather put all the energies into making the film rather than promoting something that's barely started.
Dennis took this low-profile approach with Polaris. There's basically just a blog for it, and even though we could have put out a trailer a year ago, we're putting our time into actually making the show and we'll worry about building up interest once we're at a point where we feel we have a locked in completion date and can make a really proper kick-ass trailer.
Speaking of what's important,one thing that I think is very important is to put every bit of effort you can into making the film good instead of promoting it when it's still a zygote. A number of fans spend a great deal of effort creating trailers and complicated websites. Me, I'd rather put all the energies into making the film rather than promoting something that's barely started.
Dennis took this low-profile approach with Polaris. There's basically just a blog for it, and even though we could have put out a trailer a year ago, we're putting our time into actually making the show and we'll worry about building up interest once we're at a point where we feel we have a locked in completion date and can make a really proper kick-ass trailer.
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And if I had the spare cash you'd be welcome.Well, you know, if the airfare and dropped into my lap I'd direct an episode for ya, Nick.
Michael Bay, is that you?
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