Now, THAT I take seriously!All part of my cunning plan.
What is important...
- Thread starter Loken
- Start date
Are you kidding me? I like Jim a lot, but I don't have a problem disagreeing with anyone if I think it's appropriate. We're here to talk about making these movies, not to sign autographs.
That said, my main concern now with the project I'm working on is to make the folks who worked on it proud of the finished film. We had a wonderful time during production (and some pretty uncomfortable days as well) and I want them to remember the whole experience fondly.
A number of the folks working on Polaris wound up making contributions to the story in a sense during production, because three or four of them were writers themselves and there were various points at which we needed to rework dialogue, etc. One of our set crew was a scientist who suggested a couple of lines to establish the nature of a navigational problem. The leads came up with business that turned out to be important to the subtext of what was going on, etc.
A more successful and less stressful production? Maybe. But is it going to end up being a quality production? I doubt it. I have directed a few short films, and a handful of plays. Those productions would not have been successful if I had not been willing to listen to those working with me on those productions. What I said in my post was that during the "creative process" (ie: at the start of the production), I see nothing wrong with people giving their input and sharing their thoughts and ideas. A good Director is going to be able to say yes or no to those ideas. They are the project leader, after all.
I spent 10 years as an officer in the Canadian Airforce (yes, I really am a Captain... lol). So I like to think that I know a thing or two about being an effective leader. In the military, there is a chain of command, and everyone has their assigned duties. However, just because there is a "chain of command", does not mean that a good officer shouldn't listen to the ideas of their subordinates. Twice a week at my Squadron, the senior staff would have meetings where business was discussed. Before the end of the meeting, we would go around the table, and everyone would have a chance to share any news, thoughts or ideas they might have on ways to improve the SQN. If a junior member of the "rank and file" shared an idea with their Sergeant, and the Sgt thought it was worth mentioning at the staff meeting, they would pass on their advice to the Commanding Officer. If the CO thought the idea was worth implementing, they would have the idea put into practice.
A film set is no different, really. If you have a good idea, you should take it to the person in the position above you to pass forward up the chain of command. Don't just run to the Director with your great idea. If you are at a group meeting, where ideas are being shared freely, you should be able to share your thoughts and ideas with the heads of the production (including the Director). If the people in charge are not willing to listen to the ideas of those working on the film, then, in my opinion, it is probably not a fan-film worth working on. Afterall, what is the point of making art if you are going to censor the ideas of your fellow artists working on the production?
No where did I suggest that a crew member (or actor) should be telling the Director how to direct, or the Editor how to edit, or a Director of Photography how to frame a shot. Everyone has their place, but if a person has an idea that they feel is worth sharing, they should be able to share that idea. Sharing an idea, or making a suggestion, does not lead to chaos. A good leader should be able to listen to the ideas of those working for them. If they don't like or agree with the idea that is being suggested, they can tell person why they are passing on the idea in a mature and respectful way. Just listening allows the people working for you to feel like they are part of the team. Having a person just "stick to what they do best" (ie: their "core competency") does devalue them in my eyes, because a good leader should be encouraging growth in the people working for them.
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Nicely put Captain Atkin. That's certainly been my experience on the sets I've been on, and that's the way I prefer to work. Make of that what you will. 
Loken
Lieutenant Commander
Alec, I don't know how many productions you have actually worked on, but I'm guessing it hasn't been too many, so I would suggest sampling some more pudding before coming to a final conclusion
I'm not suggesting that everyone should have a hand in scriptwriting. Sharing a story idea or making a suggestion is not the same thing as writing a script. For example, I was working on a film last month where we did a read through of the script, and a character said a line that would have been more effective if it had been said by one of the other characters. One of the actors suggested that the line be switched between him and his co-star, and the Writer and Director agreed, because it served the story better.
You keep saying that you should treat making a fan-film like an "organization." Gee, that sounds like fun. Yes, people should be organized in the work that they do, but the way you suggest it, you make it sound like everyone should be a peg that fits into their own unique hole. That doesn't exactly encourage creativity. Look at the two Star Wars trilogies as example. The first trilogy was, for the most part, a collaborative process between George Lucas and other artists. That series of films was fantastic. On the Prequel trilogy, Lucas only listened to himself, and surrounded himself by 'yes men' who were too afraid to say when they thought something needed fixing or changing. Now ask yourself; how well did the prequels turn out? I'm sure it was a less stressful production for the Director (Lucas), and the films were successful in the sense that they made money, but the quality of the original trilogy was gone.
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To be perfectly honest, we allow our actors to have input on how their lines are delivered and even some choice of phrasing and words. Somethings read very well, but simply don't sound right when spoken. A quick adjustment to the script can make an unwieldy line suddenly sound natural.
During "The Night the Stars Fell from the Sky," we made some adjustments on location. Some actors suggested a slightly different line than the ones written, and as the executive producer/creator, I listened to their input, and even decided they were right about some of the changes they wanted. One even suggested a short exchange between two characters that is simply awesome.
I can't imagine choosing simply to ignore and disregard the input of the creative cast of our production.
During "The Night the Stars Fell from the Sky," we made some adjustments on location. Some actors suggested a slightly different line than the ones written, and as the executive producer/creator, I listened to their input, and even decided they were right about some of the changes they wanted. One even suggested a short exchange between two characters that is simply awesome.
I can't imagine choosing simply to ignore and disregard the input of the creative cast of our production.
Wasn't it Harrison Ford who suggested shooting that sword weilding guy in Raiders instead of a long protracted knife fight they had planned in the script?
There should be alot of arguing amongst writers. It's not personal, and it shouldn't be about power. If the writer is not pursuasive enough to prove his point, then maybe he is wrong about it, but he should remain open to any and all commentary but the advantage should be with the writer of the story. Else he pulls it from production.
There should be alot of arguing amongst writers. It's not personal, and it shouldn't be about power. If the writer is not pursuasive enough to prove his point, then maybe he is wrong about it, but he should remain open to any and all commentary but the advantage should be with the writer of the story. Else he pulls it from production.
Yes he did, because he was exhausted that day, and was too tired to shoot the scene as it was written. It was completely unexpected and ended up being one of the funniest and most memorable scenes in the film. Also, in The Empire Strikes Back, Harrison Ford was responsible for coming up with his final line in the film. Originally, Lucas wrote the scene with Princess Leia professing her love to Han Solo, with Han replying "I love you too." Ford felt the characterization was not being used effectively, and the Director (Irvin Kershner) agreed. After several takes, the Director told the actor to improvise on the spot. Ford changed his line to "I know."
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Yeah, a good production is usually going to have at least some collaboration. How much is the right amount? The mileage is going to vary from production. There's really no right/wrong answer for how much is the right amount. It's whatever works for you and that particular production.
More specifically, Ford had intestinal issues and needed to retire to his trailer.
I read exactly the same post and didn't draw that conclusion for a second.
Exactly right. IMO of course.
The trick, in my experience, is having a sensible head (or head) running the show. Someone who knows when to listen, when not to listen, and has a fair understanding of what works (or doesn't) creatively.
^^^I think that's pretty much what happened^^^
I read exactly the same post and didn't draw that conclusion for a second.
Exactly right. IMO of course.
The trick, in my experience, is having a sensible head (or head) running the show. Someone who knows when to listen, when not to listen, and has a fair understanding of what works (or doesn't) creatively.
I think it really helps to have everyone on the same page. If you're working with someone who has a very specific vision and wants it their way and their way only, trying to offer suggestions may not work very well. Then it becomes a matter if you want to sign on or not. It also matters whether you're volunteering as someone just willing to help wherever or whether you're brought in because you have a particular skill set.
Again, there's no right or wrong, it's just a matter of how the person in charge wants it.
Exactly. I enjoy working with our cast, most of whom are local actors. They often have a different take on a script than I have. That makes for creativity that should be appreciated. A script should be a living, breathing document; not a series of tablets etched in stone by the fingers of a self-important god.
Guys... respectfully, you are all missing the point what is important, or more correctly what is good, is as follows:
1. Crush your enemies.
2. See them driven before you.
3. To hear the lamentations of their women.
1. Crush your enemies.
2. See them driven before you.
3. To hear the lamentations of their women.
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