THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

[Alidar Jarok]

While interesting, it's still tangential. The question is what Pipe Weed is supposed to be. Given the way it's set up, it seems to be a reference to tobacco, it's just complicated by an inconsistent approach to his universe. There's nothing to suggest it has any properties of a cannabinoid at all.

 

[mswood]

A marathon of stories without women except for one shieldmaiden, an elf who had to be written in from the footnotes and a walk-on part for the elf queen.

Not a problem in the slightest. I can watch Band if Brothers for example and not be moan the lack of women characters that are prominent in their quest, why should I here.

I for one wouldn't complain about reading say a long wonder women story set back during the two thousand years of isolation from both man's world and their gods, and not be bothered by the lack of men in that story.

Why would I apply modern sensibilities to materials that were drawn for a different age. It's like reading Tom Sawyer and not having race be an issue. And it's not like that in both film versions they didn't expand female roles that weren't a part of the original work.

 

[Set Harth]

what's in Tolkien's work should be reflective of what was possible in Europe circa 7,000 BCE. And tobacco and potatoes were no more possible in Europe circa 7,000 BCE than were express trains.

Were Balrogs and magic invisibility rings possible in Europe circa 7,000 BCE?

(Also, since you edited in Merry's theory, it doesn't actually work. According to the maps, there was no equivalent of North and South America prior to the sinking of Numenor and the change of the world from flat to spherical. Without the Americas, there no place for tobacco and potatoes to come from.)

How can Merry's theory not work in-universe, as a theory of where pipe-weed comes from? To put it another way, given all the other changes in understanding that would be required in order to interpret the past of Arda as actual prehistory, wouldn't the true origin of tobacco be relatively minor by comparison?

 

[FordSVT]

Production video #5. On location shooting, Hobbiton, more.

 

[InklingStar]

what's in Tolkien's work should be reflective of what was possible in Europe circa 7,000 BCE. And tobacco and potatoes were no more possible in Europe circa 7,000 BCE than were express trains.

Were Balrogs and magic invisibility rings possible in Europe circa 7,000 BCE?

(Also, since you edited in Merry's theory, it doesn't actually work. According to the maps, there was no equivalent of North and South America prior to the sinking of Numenor and the change of the world from flat to spherical. Without the Americas, there no place for tobacco and potatoes to come from.)

How can Merry's theory not work in-universe, as a theory of where pipe-weed comes from? To put it another way, given all the other changes in understanding that would be required in order to interpret the past of Arda as actual prehistory, wouldn't the true origin of tobacco be relatively minor by comparison?

Tobacco existed in ancient Europe, but the hobbits smoked it all.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then something smoked all the Hobbits.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

was Pipe-weed that "funny weed"

Would explain why Merry and Pippin have the munchies in that one scene in the extended edition of The Two Towers.

 

[Skywalker]

was Pipe-weed that "funny weed"

Would explain why Merry and Pippin have the munchies in that one scene in the extended edition of The Two Towers.

They're hobbits. They always have the munchies.

 

[Deckerd]

A marathon of stories without women except for one shieldmaiden, an elf who had to be written in from the footnotes and a walk-on part for the elf queen.

Not a problem in the slightest. I can watch Band if Brothers for example and not be moan the lack of women characters that are prominent in their quest, why should I here.

Band of Brothers is about an army unit in the Second World War. The screaming inconsistency would have been if there had been any women. Had it been about wartime France as a whole, however, and but one woman played a pivotal role, you have to wonder about the blinkers the writer was wearing.

 

[Gothowitz]

Production video #5. On location shooting, Hobbiton, more.

Woot! Thanks for the heads-up!

ETA: So now Hobbiton will be a permanent tour-site after the movies?
I wanna ride the Smaugcoaster.

They should just rename Wellington as Hobbitwood.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Further in-depth frame-by-frame analysis of the trailer by folks at TORN.

I have to admit I never noticed the differences in Gandalf's staff but I like the suggestion that its actually alive and is slowly "blooming."
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/201...ler-torns-frame-by-frame-analysis/#more-51649

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Those production videos always seem to do a great job of conveying just how special this production is for everyone involved. That dedication worked for the LOTR films - there's a great chance that it'll work for the Hobbit films, too.

Also, from that frame-by-frame analysis:

"1:48 – 2:01 : heroic version of the melody used for the song (just sung) – this indicates to me the melody will be a theme, probably a major one, in the vein of the Shire Theme and the Fellowship Theme in LOTR"
​

I really hope that this will be a primary theme in the score. It sounds incredible. Is there yet any confirmation that the cue was composed by Howard Shore?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

More than likely considering he, like so many others from the Lord of the Rings production, has returned for The Hobbit.

 

[Skywalker]

We know Howard Shore is back for the films, and that theme definitely does sound like his work. It sounds like it could have come right out of LOTR.

I think it will be one of the main themes, yeah. Probably akin to the Fellowship's theme in LOTR.

 

[FordSVT]

A marathon of stories without women except for one shieldmaiden, an elf who had to be written in from the footnotes and a walk-on part for the elf queen.

Not a problem in the slightest. I can watch Band if Brothers for example and not be moan the lack of women characters that are prominent in their quest, why should I here.

Band of Brothers is about an army unit in the Second World War. The screaming inconsistency would have been if there had been any women. Had it been about wartime France as a whole, however, and but one woman played a pivotal role, you have to wonder about the blinkers the writer was wearing.

Good thing the Hobbit isn't about Wartime France then.

 

[Captain Craig]

I'm not really going to be hung up on potatoes and tobacco. Just show me a really good movie.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The Hobbit was written before the time period Band of Brothers is supposed to be set in. It takes place in a time much farther back that is supposed to evoke the middle ages. It would be strange for it to evoke modern sensibilities. Yes, there's a gender imbalance. It's not trying to be a piece of feminist work. This is really just a silly complaint.

Now potatoes, that's serious business

 

[mswood]

A marathon of stories without women except for one shieldmaiden, an elf who had to be written in from the footnotes and a walk-on part for the elf queen.

Not a problem in the slightest. I can watch Band if Brothers for example and not be moan the lack of women characters that are prominent in their quest, why should I here.

Band of Brothers is about an army unit in the Second World War. The screaming inconsistency would have been if there had been any women. Had it been about wartime France as a whole, however, and but one woman played a pivotal role, you have to wonder about the blinkers the writer was wearing.

And that's where you completely miss the boat (and why I specifically used Band of Brothers as an example).

Of course (like you mentioned) if that story was a general telling of war time France, then women would have all sorts of roles. But its not its a story set with a combat force made of males (who only run into women a few times in their travels and none for any real significant exchanges).

But LOTR is also a war time story, but not a general one, one that is told of a band (ie fellowship) and not the general overall war time effort. IE the story only follows the members of the fellowship. Even in the Hobbit it's basically routed force going back into battle, one using subterfuge, instead of open war fare. All the cultures used are based on cultures that had a strict demarcation (at that time) of what roles women would have in society as a whole).

Just as in Band of Brothers int eh US, women's roles would not allow them in combat military. Women had very set roles in the military.

I mean the fact that Tolkien even included one women who went against the rules of society in getting into combat, shows greater latitude then the military of World War I or II.

So the fact that you have no problems with Band of Brothers yet do with LOTR and the Hobbit really seems rather odd and inconsistent.

 

[InklingStar]

Not a problem in the slightest. I can watch Band if Brothers for example and not be moan the lack of women characters that are prominent in their quest, why should I here.

Band of Brothers is about an army unit in the Second World War. The screaming inconsistency would have been if there had been any women. Had it been about wartime France as a whole, however, and but one woman played a pivotal role, you have to wonder about the blinkers the writer was wearing.

And that's where you completely miss the boat (and why I specifically used Band of Brothers as an example).

Of course (like you mentioned) if that story was a general telling of war time France, then women would have all sorts of roles. But its not its a story set with a combat force made of males (who only run into women a few times in their travels and none for any real significant exchanges).

But LOTR is also a war time story, but not a general one, one that is told of a band (ie fellowship) and not the general overall war time effort. IE the story only follows the members of the fellowship. Even in the Hobbit it's basically routed force going back into battle, one using subterfuge, instead of open war fare. All the cultures used are based on cultures that had a strict demarcation (at that time) of what roles women would have in society as a whole).

Just as in Band of Brothers int eh US, women's roles would not allow them in combat military. Women had very set roles in the military.

I mean the fact that Tolkien even included one women who went against the rules of society in getting into combat, shows greater latitude then the military of World War I or II.

So the fact that you have no problems with Band of Brothers yet do with LOTR and the Hobbit really seems rather odd and inconsistent.

Indeed, some of Tolkien's inspiration for Fellowship came from his own experiences in World War I, Frodo's perspective especially: He left his idyllic home and trudged through a war-torn hell in order to save his home and his friends. He succeeded, but upon his return he found that things had changed, or more accurately he had changed, and he no longer fit in the home he struggled so hard to save. A great illustration of the young soldier returning from war.

 

[V]

"In ancient days they (the Elves) had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay."
The Hobbit, page 168

The actual story of this event can be found in The Silmarillion, specifically "Of The Ruin of Doriath." The elf-king Thingol contracts with some dwarves to set a silmaril into a necklace called the nauglimir, which had been made by the dwarves for a fellow elf-king who was now dead. The dwarves try to steal it, claiming ownership, as well as lured by the silmaril, and they assassinate Thingol when he protests. Thus began the hatred between elves and dwarves.

When Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, much of the stories that would later be published in The Silmarillion were already extant in one form or another. So he made little connections throughout what was supposed to be a children's story to his greater legendarium, including the way Elrond notes that Gandalf and Thorin's swords once belonged to his great-grandfather Turgon, the elf-king of Gondolin.

I actually thought that wasn't referring to Thingol, on account of the fact that it says "the elf-king" (Thranduil) and not Thingol.

Particularly because the version in The Hobbit implies its really the "Elf-King's" fault and a squabble over due payment for the Dwarves....while the Silmarillion makes it clear that the Dwarves were really just trying to steal the Silmaril.

Though its obviously a repeated trope.