The Improving the JJprise thread

[The Castellan]

Yet the 2005 Tardis interiors and the current ones look more plastic, more junky than the classic ones, yet people seem to be cool with that.

Get a new optometrist. Rose-tinted eyewear doesn't do wonders for one's vision.

Since when do bike pumps, type writers, record players, record players, and so on look more advanced? Looks less like Galifrey and more like Sandford and Son.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The classic series sets really aren't half as well finished as the Eccleston/Tennant and Smith console rooms. Even if the new ones do literally have junk as part of the controls.

The overall design is far more alien, more unique and more "Gallifrey", IMHO.

 

[Captain Crow]

The junk consoles and dingy console rooms that NuWho seem to love ruin part of the joke about the TARDIS that the old series kind of had. To lesser advanced species the high-techish console and simplistic sterile white room would give the impression it's a very advanced high end space/time machine, when in reality it's an outdated clunker several centuries out of warranty stolen from a repair bay.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Supposedly, the rationale behind the current control panel set up is that with Gallifrey gone, so is any source of actual Tardis parts, even old ones, so he's had to resort to jerry rigging of a level that even the most hardcore redneck can only aspire to.

 

[Captain Crow]

Which is negated on screen when the Eccleston/Tennant console room is said to be a specific "desktop theme" rather than a repair job of a damaged console room. Plus the fact that Smith's console room was a brand new one also negates the jury rigged repairs idea for the junk console.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yet the 2005 Tardis interiors and the current ones look more plastic, more junky than the classic ones, yet people seem to be cool with that.

Yeah, right. Everything about oldWho is cheap and cheesy compared to nuWho.

Yet another example of the reason that guys like Abrams and Chambliss and Davies are placed in positions to make these decisions and fan critics are not.

 

[Psion]

As long as we're off-topic here discussing fan opinions of the TARDIS interior, I'd just like to share a link to another site detailing one fan's designs for an interior that seems to collect the best of both visions.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's a lot better than the oldWho versions, but still not up to snuff for a modern production with any ambition (and commensurate budget).

 

[largo]

i'm sure the producers of Doctor Who would be glad to know that their show is good enough that the public suspects that they actually have a "commensurate budget". when in fact, like all shows of the BBC, they make do with a relative pittance.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"Relative" is the operative word there. They do very well.

 

[The Castellan]

Yet the 2005 Tardis interiors and the current ones look more plastic, more junky than the classic ones, yet people seem to be cool with that.

Yeah, right. Everything about oldWho is cheap and cheesy compared to nuWho.

Yet another example of the reason that guys like Abrams and Chambliss and Davies are placed in positions to make these decisions and fan critics are not.

More like they should have worked on Sanford and Son.

Plus I prefer a Who where not every woman's trying to bonk the Doctor.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

He can't help it.

It's the bowtie.

Bitches love the bowtie.

 

[The Castellan]

Yet another example of the reason that guys like Abrams and Chambliss and Davies are placed in positions to make these decisions and fan critics are not.

Considering he's the guy who made Lost, he does not have my confidence.

Well, if they ever go and reboot Sandford and Son, they'll have my up most confidence.

 

[Irishman]

I'd slim those engines. Also, I don't buy that 1,200 meter length. Hell, what would explain that huge of a size increase?

Also, lose the tail fins.

What do you mean "what would explain" it?

Why does it need an explanation? Different universe, different artistic expression, different ship sizes.

This ain't your daddy's Star Trek, son.

 

[Irishman]

Seems to me they should have used the TOS Enterprise as their starting point, not the TMP one as they clearly did.

Assuming we're pretty much stuck with this ship hardware-wise, they could at least add the TOS-style pennant (seen on a couple of the JJshuttlecraft) to the nacelles and the two opposing "NCC-1701" to the saucer underside. Maybe even the triangles if you can work out a reason for them to be there (the saucer already has landing gear).

If I remember correctly, during development of the JJPrise, they had taken note of Roddenberry saying, during the pre-production of TMP that, the film Enterprise level of design was what they had always had in mind when they made the TOS design. And, had they had the budget, we'd have seen a more primitive version of the film design onscreen, if they'd had the money.

The JJPrise is said to be a backwards-in-time design using the TMP Enterprise as its follow-on, working backwards in ways that make the ship look more awkward.

And in that regard (the awkwardness), it certainly works.

 

[Irishman]

If I understand the basic notion of "re-imagining" correctly (both from the 2009 movie and Ronald D. Moore's BATTLESTAR GALACTICA remake), JJ Abrams set out to capture the essence of TOS without any attachments to the specifics of what TOS was about. So you see characters and situations that vaguely resemble the originals, as well as a "new" Starship Enterprise that vaguely (at least, from what it looks like to my eyes) resembles the TMP "refit" ship.

I would say that if JJ was going to the trouble of inventing that way-out bridge set (looks like a cosmetics counter in a high-end shopping mall; nod to the photoshopper who nailed it on this forum some time ago) then the rest of the ship should follow accordingly. The Nuprise should have tried using a (more) clean sheet of paper, breaking down the basic shapes and creating something much more different. (And I'm not talking about an imitation battlestar or star destroyer, either.)

So, what do you have? A saucer, nacelles and a secondary hull. There are indications that the Nuprise could be much larger than the TOSprise. The bridge looks very advanced, so should the rest of the ship follow suit? I say y-e-s. Why make nacelles that look like marital aids? Why borrow the illuminated dish from FIRST CONTACT? And why make the hull texture and shape of the saucer look like warmed-over TMPprise? Beats me. Sounds like JJ's crew took one step forward, two steps back.

I like some of the things that were done with the Kelvin. If it were me, I would've scaled up and extrapolated on the Nuprise evolving along the Kelvin's design concepts. (The Kelvin's exterior really impressed me, and I'm not even a fan of single-nacelle starships anymore.)

If the Nuprise must be large as a battlestar, fine. Start with the saucer. Give it some serious diameter, and at least 3 or 4 decks thick at the outer rim, possibly more, depending on how big you want to go. That outer rim should be housing hangar bays a la DS9, as well as cargo bays and labs and other facilities. Crew habitat would be in the saucer hub. The saucer might look a little like the early concepts developed for the McQuarieprise. (spelling?) I would envision a ship like this having a crew of at least a thousand, if not thousands, and being sized to match. The saucer would reflect that, of course, and would also be equipped to operate as a limited-capability starship in its own right. As long as we're re-inventing everything, maybe saucer modules would be multi-purpose space vessels in their own right, able to carry out various preset missions once jettisoned from the stardrive section; lifeboat, space station, temporary command base, cargo hauling platform, weapons platform, listening post, you name it.

Maybe the stardrive section would not be elaborate. maybe just a simple, spartan secondary hull and simpler nacelles attached by nondescript pylons. Maybe the saucer should look disproportionately large in comparison because that's where the bulk of the crew and facilities would be.

And to further distinguish JJ's TREK from TOS/TMP/ etc., maybe there wouldn't be a plethora of starship classes. Maybe there's just one "Star Ship Class", ever evolving in technology and size. The idea of simpler, interchangeable modules and the bulk of the facilities residing in the saucer would mean the nature of starships, how they would operate and how they would be maintained/repaired/replaced/refit would be quite different than what we saw in TOS, TMPs and TNG/DS9.

Maybe to further offset the re-thought JJprise from the 2009 JJprise or the previous Enterprises, the nacelles would be long, somewhat thin, simple tubes. There might not be any domes at the front or back. Maybe both ends would vaguely resemble the bows of jet engines. Maybe they glow faintly when at idle, but maybe the whole housing glows (and the length of the tubes glows right through its own hull) when fully revved for flight.

I hated the uniforms used in the 2009 movie. My feeling was that if you're going to re-invent, then by all means, re-invent. Bring back the turtlenecks of "The Cage", but maybe incorporate them into an ENT-style jumpsuit. And when it comes to the ship's external markings, be a bit more flamboyant like the "small corvette" thread found elsewhere in this forum.

One thing I would bring back from TOS is the proud, utilitarian naval block lettering used in the original Enterprise's hull nomenclature. Everything else used since looked embarrassingly cheesy by comparison.

I might also be interested to experiment with different hull colors and textures.

Respectfully, I disliked pretty much every suggestion you just laid out.

You're doing what so many have accused Church and Abrams of doing - being different just for the sake of being different.

 

[Irishman]

I was addressing a post by WWI Flying Ace, not you.

You were responding to my post, so you must've been responding to me at some point...

Do whatever you want.

It's too bad. If you'd read that post you might see how your response to Ace was unjust.

Oh well.

I think the trickiest aspect of the TOS-E is the design of the nacelle struts. That stated, there have been respectful revisionings of the TOS-E which make them more graceful.

I think what I gathered from Comet's comments about ISDs, etc, was that - if you have a simple silhouette, you need surface details to create visual interest, or vice-versa, thus any redesigned Enterprise, using that observation, would need one or the other to be effective.

I might be reading meaning into it, but that's what his comment meant to me.

 

[Captain Robert April]

If I remember correctly, during development of the JJPrise, they had taken note of Roddenberry saying, during the pre-production of TMP that, the film Enterprise level of design was what they had always had in mind when they made the TOS design. And, had they had the budget, we'd have seen a more primitive version of the film design onscreen, if they'd had the money.

Then JJ is an even bigger idiot than I thought, if he took GR's pre TMP propaganda seriously.

 

[Dukhat]

Then JJ is an even bigger idiot than I thought, if he took GR's pre TMP propaganda seriously.

You think JJ Abrams is an idiot? Wow, I never would have guessed.

 

[Kaiser]

If I remember correctly, during development of the JJPrise, they had taken note of Roddenberry saying, during the pre-production of TMP that, the film Enterprise level of design was what they had always had in mind when they made the TOS design. And, had they had the budget, we'd have seen a more primitive version of the film design onscreen, if they'd had the money.

Then JJ is an even bigger idiot than I thought, if he took GR's pre TMP propaganda seriously.

i agree when when i saw that Trek nation special with his son talking to JJ i think JJ had a smug look on his face the whole time when they were talking togethor =/