College Football 2011 Discussion

[Lieut. Arex]

Those folks are classless and while they purport to uphold Alabama's tradition they forget their behavior would be met with disdain by the very people they claim to support and honor. Coaches Wade, Thomas, and Bryant, the men who laid the foundations and built the history of the program, wouldn't tolerate such behavior. I keep in mind something Coach Bryant said: "It's better to be seen than heard. The sun's about the most powerful thing around, but it doesn't make a whole lot of noise." Unfortunately, some people can't handle success with class.

 

[tighr]

Listening to Sirius XM College Sports this morning. Consensus seems to be that regardless of who is in the title game, Ok State or Alabama, both deserved the spot. It's pointless to say one deserved it more than the other, because they both deserved to go.

The point was also raised that if Stanford beats Oklahoma State in the Fiesta Bowl, the naysayers won't have a leg to stand on, and the winner of LSU/Alabama will indeed be the undisputed winner. Luckily, the Fiesta is before the BCSNCG, so they'll get that out of the way first.

Also, we get to see K State play Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl, which will probably end up being one of the top 3 bowl matchups, AGAIN. (I went to the 2004 Cotton Bowl, Ole Miss/Ok State. Cotton Bowl is by far one of the biggest tradition bowls behind the Rose Bowl, and it sucks they got shafted out of BCS status).

I'm also looking forward to Houston vs. Penn State in the Ticket City, which is a promising match-up.

Orange Bowl yet again is a shitty situation, and sadly so is the Sugar Bowl. At least, on paper.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Thank you. Of course I didn't and despite the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary, Roll Tide/War Eagle, which did its damnedest to make Updike the face of Alabama, neither did any reasonable Alabama fan.

I just watched that documentary myself, and I admit I was questioning the decision to let Updike speak. "I don't see how grown people can get a kick out of throwing toilet paper up on a tree." Seriously? His response was really mature. And then the 9-11 remarks he made? What a prick.

I do think they made a point at the end of showing that both schools did not approve of that kind of behavior, and I was glad they covered what happened when the tornadoes came through. I think that set a lot of people straight, though above all, it was a tragedy. I had thought that ever since Doppler radar, we would never have so many people die in a tornado ever again. I even have a recording I did on my computer of the sirens from a much earlier part of the storm, where I was talking to a friend and saying it wasn't a big deal, because I thought that kind of thing couldn't happen in the 21st century. And then it did.

Anyway, back on the documentary...I don't know why that nutjob had to be allowed to speak. That was a bad move.

What I would've liked to see more of, though, is a harder look at Finebaum, who seems like the Jerry Springer of the sports world. Even if he didn't directly instigate the vandalism, he seems like a clear instigator of blowing the whole damn rivalry out of proportion by egging on the nutjobs. I wasn't sure I really saw any remorse out of him.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I completely agree about Finebaum. He goes out of his way to encourage the worst elements of the rivalry every day on his show then shakes his head sadly in the film as if he's an innocent bystander who's merely revealing this insanity to the world. The producers are fans of his and used him as the window through which they viewed the rivalry though Finebaum's more of a funhouse mirror.

Seriously, what do you expect from a Tennessee grad? He's come south to sow dissent amongst his team's foes.

 

[tighr]

I remember as a kid growing up in Alabama, when I went to summer camp. In the Mess Hall, where everyone would routinely break out in camp songs, you'd get one guy who'd yell out "Roll Tide!" and be met with a resounding chorus of "War Eagle!", which would ultimately be responded by even more "Roll Tide!" calls. If there's one thing to be said about the AU/UA rivalry, they get their supporters young.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

They've got nothing on the OU/O-State rivalry. Indoctrinated young here, too. That's part of the reason the O-State fans went soooo nuts with the revelry and celebration the other night. It was precisely because it was OU. They don't routinely storm the field or go insane like that. O-State is not known for being an overly rowdy, rude crowd. I've talked with visitors many times. I love talking to fans of the other teams. They're always like, "Shoot, go to Mississippi or Louisiana or (surprisingly) Colorado if you want the rudest fans in the world. This is nothing." For about 80 years, OSU was soooo far behind in facilities and athletic funding. OU was a juggernaut since the Wilkinson era. It had all the money and, during the cheating heydays of the 70s and 80s, it was a monopoly on recruiting the talent in a four state area and beyond. Their back up starters would get drafted by the NFL. OU had a stranglehold on talent--it was a pro team in a college town.

Only with the arrival of the early 80s and Pat Jones succeding Jimmy Johnson did OSU even begin to get a trickle of star talent like Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders. In the 90s, they finally won two games against OU. Still....wins were few and so far in between. The OU fans routinely called us little brother and other nastier things. OU always had the better talent and the majority of the talent. Now, finally.....OSU had more talent for the very first time. It will have an indoor practice facility that rivals the best. I never thought I'd live to see the day when OSU would thoroughly humilate OU on the field. I really thought I'd never see it. Folks went a little nuts. When I was little, I'd live through 66-6 humiliations year after year after year. It was glorious to see such a beat down.

 

[tighr]

They've got nothing on the OU/O-State rivalry. Indoctrinated young here, too. That's part of the reason the O-State fans went soooo nuts with the revelry and celebration the other night. It was precisely because it was OU.

You forget that I mentioned earlier that my parents live in Tulsa, so I'm well aware of the OU and OkState fanbases. Trust me, Alabama/Auburn is bigger.

The reason the fans rushed the field is because they haven't beaten OU in 9 years, and the series currently stands at 82-17-7. Oklahoma State is the only one that considers this a "rivalry", because OU prefers their rivalry with Texas.

The Iron Bowl is a REAL rivalry, because things got so heated between the schools that they CANCELED the series out of spite for 40 years! Both teams are in it to win it, every year.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Pardon me. Alabama/Auburn is real. No, it was about much, much more than not beating OU in 8 years. I've only lived here and been an OSU fan for 46 years. What do I know about it, eh? I wouldn't be so arrogant as to claim I knew more about the Alabama/Auburn rivalry than someone who grew up there.

Sheesh. You should listen to the juvenile ranting around here. Trust me, OU cares a wee bit about winning this series. Now that they've lost they claim otherwise, but the broadcasters call them on that bs. They sure care about it when they're winning.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Congratulations to Robert Griffin III on his Heisman win.

 

[Skywalker]

Awesome! I was rooting for him. I think he clearly deserved it over the other nominees. Hopefully his success at the college level will translate to the NFL.

I'm just glad nobody from the damn SEC won it.

 

[Gaseous Anomaly]

It's about time that Baylor had some good things happen with their football program. I hope he returns next year so the building can continue here.

 

[drychlick]

i see no problem with Lsu vs Alabama ! NO.1 vs NO. 2 what wrong with that ? NOTING ! About even year we hear this we need a playoff! but people get mad and every thing and after the BCS Title gane no 1 sald anthing more ! you guy are like that dad that said he going to turn the car around and never do when the kids act bad lol! ps Oklanhoma state fans i like to hear your take on this!

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Well, this Oklahoma State fan's take is that OSU's strength of schedule was much stronger than Bama's. That's not just my opinion. By computer, their SOS is better. It's much better. The bottom half of the SEC isn't nearly as strong as the Big 12, where you play everybody.

North Texas, Georgia Southern, and Kent State were Bama's OOC schedule. OSU's wasn't great, but Bama's was far weaker. Bama's only two really good opponents were Arkansas and LSU, and they lost to one of them. Why does Bama's one loss supercede OSU's entire body of work? Disregarding each team's loss, OSU's body of work is stronger. Bama got in because the SEC is perceived to be stronger as a whole, when it isn't. It's only stronger at the top. That's what bothers me the most. Coach's bias' played a part in keeping Oklahoma State out. Bama may be the more physically talented of the two, maybe not. We'll never know. However, when considering the whole body of work, Oklahoma State deserved it more because of what they did on the field. Iowa State isn't that bad, and one double overtime loss on the road shouldn't wipe you out. Bama got rewarded for losing to a better team, when they played less talented teams all along. Bama being "better" is only perception. OSU's record is proven. Bama and LSU rematch is a real snooze. They got in when LSU had to play an extra game. How is that fair? They didn't even win their conference. Alabama and OSU had identical records. Alabama lost to a better team, but OSU defeated better teams. The message is clear. Schedule cupcakes. If you're in the "mighty" SEC, you get rewarded. It's not right. It's just not right.

You want to talk hosed? Kansas State not being in the Sugar Bowl. Now that's hosed.

 

[tighr]

The computers don't account for margin of victory:

Alabama beat #6 Arkansas convincingly by 24 points.
Oklahoma State barely beat #8 Kansas State.

Alabama beat everyone, including the cupcakes, on its schedule, and lost only to the #1 team. In OT.
Oklahoma State lost to one of their cupcakes, and blew a lead to do it.

Alabama blew out EVERY other opponent by an average of 19 points per game. Its closest game was 16 over Penn State.

Alabama leads the nation (#1) in total defense, scoring defense, rushing defense, passing defense, pass efficiency defense and third down defense.

Oklahoma State will lose to Stanford.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Doubtful. And Iowa State, though not strong, isn't a cupcake. They finished .500. If Oklahoma State played the likes of Vandy, Georgia Southern, North Texas, and Kent State, their average margin of victory would be higher than 19.

 

[tighr]

Doubtful. And Iowa State, though not strong, isn't a cupcake. They finished .500. If Oklahoma State played the likes of Vandy, Georgia Southern, North Texas, and Kent State, their average margin of victory would be higher than 19.

Doubtful.

And Iowa State wouldn't be above .500 had Oklahoma State beaten them like they should have. You can't hang your hat on a team having a winning record because you let them.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

You can't hang your hat on a one loss record when all your wins save one or two are against complete cupcakes, either. Unless your SEC and have that perceived reputation via ESPN. SEC is top heavy in the extreme. I know that Kent State defense was tough, but I think O-State could have handled it. Bama is making its case on a loss. O-State makes its case on wins.

 

[tighr]

I already explained how Bama is making its case based on its wins. Margin of victory and strength of defense is unreal. Trust me, I wish Bama and Oklahoma State could play on the same field, but our system in place doesn't allow it. I truly think it would have been a blowout.

The SEC "bias" may piss off other conferences, but it will persist as long as the other conferences let the SEC win their match-ups. 5 NC games in a row (two against the Big 12!) should mean something. Those games were decided on the field.

Luckily for us, the Cotton Bowl will be a match-up between two teams we each beat, and that should be a good indicator of how Bama and Oklahoma State would fair against each other.

 

[Roger Wilco]

As someone who's a complete outsider to this (this is the first year I've even followed college football) I think the main problem is that both Alabama and LSU are such no-nonsense, no-fun, defense teams. If their first matchup had been a 42-39 shootout or something I don't think anyone would complain. And personally, I thought Alabama was the better one of the two teams actually, I thought the loss was quite unlucky. Oklahoma State or Stanford (or Oregon) against one of LSU/Alabama might have been a more exciting/fun matchup, but from what I've seen this year (one or two games every week) those two probably really are the strongest ones right now.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I already explained how Bama is making its case based on its wins. Margin of victory and strength of defense is unreal. Trust me, I wish Bama and Oklahoma State could play on the same field, but our system in place doesn't allow it.

Had the Big 12 and Pac 10 supported SEC Commissioner Mike Slive's Plus-1 proposal in 2008, the Alabama-OSU match-up would be taking place. Additionally, the other conferences (Big 12 and Big 10 lead the charge IIRC) blocked an SEC proposal that only conference champions be eligible for the BCS. So, two proposals, made by the SEC which would have worked against the SEC this year, shot down by conferences who couldn't see what was best for them.

I truly think it would have been a blowout.

I agree with what Rod Gilmore said re:Big 12 offense versus SEC defense. We've seen in the Arkansas vs Alabama, Arkansas vs. LSU games. The result: Blowout. What the Forty Year-old Man was on that made him think OSU'd put 36 points up on the #1 or #2 defenses, I have no idea.