I'm not seeing it.
I agree entirely. I'm amazed so many people have missed this and ignored the fact that a JJ-Universe Space Seed needs to happen before events akin to TWOK.
Benicio Del Toro to be the villain in the Star Trek sequel?
- Thread starter Hythlodeus
- Start date
I'm not seeing it.
I agree entirely. I'm amazed so many people have missed this and ignored the fact that a JJ-Universe Space Seed needs to happen before events akin to TWOK.
And, I hope by extension that folks realize that "Space Seed" (or any story like it) is hardly a story big enough for a feature film no matter how much it gets tarted up. (Good TV episode, though.)
The Khan in "Space Seed" wasn't that particularly interesting or menacing (or at least no more so than other TOS villains were). He certainly didn't stand out so much in "Space Seed" that he is worthy of all the speculation of whether or not he's the villain in the next movie. It was the story of his fate that turned him into the standard by which all Trek villains are still measured.
On topic, I'm not familiar with many of Del Toro's movies. Would he be the type of actor cast to play Mudd or Trelane? At least the Mudd or Trelane we know from TOS?
A subplot based on "Space Seed" would be a marvelous way to set up Khan as the main villain in a later film.
I'm sure I've mentioned ad nauseam that I think the way to re-do Khan is to establish his cryogenic crew as being discovered by another ship to begin with - the Reliant? - which they subsequently commandeer and use to conquer one or more colonies or extra-Federation worlds. Rather than having a personal history with Kirk when they finally clash in space (because you really can't do TWOK again), he's a charismatic military leader who has his own nascent empire setting up in opposition to the Feds and Klingons, etc.
He also becomes the first villain in the Trek movies who has a real motivation for singling out and planning to conquer Earth in particular, since it's his own home world and the site of his single great defeat.
I'm sure I've mentioned ad nauseam that I think the way to re-do Khan is to establish his cryogenic crew as being discovered by another ship to begin with - the Reliant? - which they subsequently commandeer and use to conquer one or more colonies or extra-Federation worlds. Rather than having a personal history with Kirk when they finally clash in space (because you really can't do TWOK again), he's a charismatic military leader who has his own nascent empire setting up in opposition to the Feds and Klingons, etc.
He also becomes the first villain in the Trek movies who has a real motivation for singling out and planning to conquer Earth in particular, since it's his own home world and the site of his single great defeat.
That would be horrible.
Well, YMMV. I've seen enough other fan plot proposals around here that I've criticized as sucking balls that it's only fair I ante up occasionally and take my turn in the stocks. 
As one of the stock characters perhaps? 
What happened to that list of five or so episodes allegedly containing the villain?
What happened to that list of five or so episodes allegedly containing the villain?
That is a pretty good idea!
Maybe he'll play a double role as Trelane AND Koloth!
That would be okay - but in the last movie, we had a villain from the future. Now we'd have a villain from the past. Why not just have an all-new 23rd century villain?
What difference does that make, at all?
You just wrote what could possibly be the only way I'd enjoy Khan being in nuTrek. Not bad Dennis, not bad.
As for Benicio del Toro, I'd be happy if that was true. He really gets in to his roles. I was excited when I heard Eric Bana was the villian for the last film and while he wasn't exactly a hit, he definitely wasn't a miss.
Vina. He's gonna be Vina.
It's nothing I can really put my finger on - I happen to think your suggested story would work quite well, though I'm not keen on nuTrek reviving a classic villain quite so early. Particularly where this one was done so well before (and I really think having Khan in 'Star Trek 2' again is just asking for unfavourable comparisons with TWOK).
It's more a gut feeling - this is Star Trek, not Doctor Who. I'm not keen on following a movie with a villain from the future with one from the past - it almost gives the impression that Trek is about time travel (and yes, I know Khan isn't a time-traveller and yes I know some of the best Trek stories involve time-travel).
Trek should be about strange new worlds and civilisations, not merely 'Well, here's a villain from the future, so we can bring back old Spock; now here's a villain from the past, cos you all liked him so much before.' I think it may just come across that way.
Anyway, like I say, I don't think BDT is playing Khan, so it's probably academic.
Bad casting. del Toro has much bigger tits than Susan Oliver.
Since there are hispanic actors who are "Caucasian" ( Including Ricardo Montalban) that might not be the best example.
What if Del Toro and Pine don't want to reprise their roles sixteen or so years later?
But wouldn't this story work with without Khan? Get rid of the sleeper ships that contain Khan and introduce the villain and his group another way, and the rest of the story can stand on its own. What makes Khan so special that the story has to be contrived to include him?
What makes Chekov so special that he should be on the Enterprise in ST09, despite his age?
The answer is that the writers are going to put things in that they think are indicative of Star Trek. Khan has become somewhat iconic, so if they could put a recognizable character in the role, they will.
^ There's a difference between a regular character and crew member, who appeared in the original series and movies and a guest star who appeared in one tv episode and one movie, no matter how memorable he was.
I think Chekov is an essential member of Kirk's crew, even if he didn't appear in the initial line-up. He needs to be in the rebooted Trek. Khan isn't and doesn't, IMHO.
I think Chekov is an essential member of Kirk's crew, even if he didn't appear in the initial line-up. He needs to be in the rebooted Trek. Khan isn't and doesn't, IMHO.
The point isn't about how regular they are otherwise you could just substitute Amanda (or Chapel for the opposite) as an example. The point is that these writers have a history of contrivance to make what they want to see appear, so what will stop them from bringing Khan in?
If they have a story where Khan fits the bill, why put someone new in the role when his character would do? They'd potentially be missing out on some opportunities that way.
If they have a story where Khan fits the bill, why put someone new in the role when his character would do? They'd potentially be missing out on some opportunities that way.
^ Well, if they think that Khan suits the story they want to tell and is the best character for the story, then fair enough.
I just don't really want nuTrek to be re-hashes of what's gone before. I personally can't see why Khan would prove more necessary to a story than a new character, who presumably would bring new story-telling opportunities of his or her own and who would also be devoid of the baggage that Khan brings - comparisons to Ricardo Montalban etc.
I just don't really want nuTrek to be re-hashes of what's gone before. I personally can't see why Khan would prove more necessary to a story than a new character, who presumably would bring new story-telling opportunities of his or her own and who would also be devoid of the baggage that Khan brings - comparisons to Ricardo Montalban etc.
