Star Wars: The Clone Wars S4

[CorporalCaptain]

I guess he always had superior numbers, extra numbers he could just throw at the enemy.

This was the clear suggestion that I picked up from part II. However, with two more parts to go, it's still conceivable that more will be revealed that could make his position seem more reasonable. Or not.

They're upping the ante on realism in war scenes. It's entering Saving Private Ryan turf a little I think, with finishing off enemy soldiers with shots at point blank range after they're down. That's fine; it's good to show that really, because war is awful. I think the tone is appropriate, and I believe the message that war is awful is coming through clearly enough. I hope anyway.

 

[DarKush]

^
Yeah I'm a bit surprised how cold blooded they have been on this show regarding death, but I like it. It does add a sense of 'realism'. I am so glad for this show. It really makes the prequel films work better for me.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Rebellion series along this line for the original films, even though they really didn't need the kind of touch up work I think the prequels did in terms of fleshing out the story more.

 

[DarthPipes]

Krell was such an asshole. Not to mention a coward...generally generals aren't on the frontline but Krell's a Jedi. That means he's the best fighter on the battlefield. He would give them the best chance at victory. But instead, he proposes insane plans that cause massive casualities. Maybe there's more to his plan then we know. If there isn't, then Krell is just a hateful moron throwing away the lives of the clones and hurting the Republic's chance for victory.

I wouldn't blame the clones for fragging Krell. If the show went in that direction, I would be shocked. That would be a direction few shows would go, let alone a cartoon. They definitely moved in that step when the clones were shooting the dying Umbarrans. I've been very impressed at how this show has not held back in terms of violence.

Speaking of the Umbarrans, I like how they're being portrayed here. We see their faces so they're not exactly faceless enemies. But they are deadly as hell and menacing. They're like the Avatar natives except they have all the technology.

Krell assery aside, this was one awesome episode. The action was amazing and frantic. Walter Murch did a great job and it's awesome the show got someone of his reputation and stature to direct it. I guess directing is easier for him without Gary Kurtz around.

I really liked the interaction and dissention between the clones. I do admit it's hard to tell them apart but they are emerging as characters. I like Rex's development a lot. I wonder if he'll survive...isn't Appo his replacement in the 501st? I think Fives viewpoint makes a lot of sense...he's the last survivor of his team. He doesn't want to see anymore of his brother die. Especially when their lives are being thrown away by their commander.

Looking forward to the next two episodes.

 

[Hound of UIster]

I have to wonder if the war has changed Krell, turned him into the bastard that he's been on the show thus far.i.

This is unrelated to the cartoon. but in the Shatterpoint novel

Spoiler: Clone War

it's heavily alluded that Jedi were never cut out to be soldiers and generals, their function were always to be peacekeepers. Turning them into soldiers and generals would destroy/change/break them and that Palpatine knew this and that the war was less about power and more a weapon against the jedi.

 

[DarKush]

I have to wonder if the war has changed Krell, turned him into the bastard that he's been on the show thus far.i.

This is unrelated to the cartoon. but in the Shatterpoint novel

Thanks for the info. I've never read Shatterpoint. It's in my stack of SW novels yet to be read. The ideas in the book it seems were echoed in one of the early Clone War Jedi series of cook book one shots from Dark Horse, which coincidentally also featured Mace Windu.

 

[cbspock]

I hope the clones frag Krell. This episode reminds me of TNG - Chains of Command, when Jellico took command of Enterprise



-Chris

I don't think Jellico was ever as destructive as Krell has been. Jellico wasn't about brute strength and unnecessary sacrifice. He was just gaming the Cardassians. He also never had the kind of disregard for life that Krell has displayed. Granted both men were hardasses but that's about the only similarities I can think of.

I have to wonder if the war has changed Krell, turned him into the bastard that he's been on the show thus far. I can't see the Jedi ever okaying this guy a command with his current attitude, much less him making it to Jedi Master status. I also can't see how he ever won any battles with this attitude. I guess he always had superior numbers, extra numbers he could just throw at the enemy. I hope the Jedi or the Republic have to account for his actions at the end of this series.

I got a feeling Rex won't make it out of this four-parter and it will help seed Anakin's distrust of the Jedi.

True, Jellico was looking out for the Enterprise and the overall mission. He had a few rough edges. It was the crew of the Enterprise that were a bunch of whiney bitches.


Krell is treating the Clones like they are machines, that can just be used up, and casualties don't matter. Plus Krell doesn't seem to Jedi like compared to the others we have seen so far. Maybe it will be Anakin who does Krell in eventually if Anakin's unit is wiped out. I wonder if we will see why Anakin was called away.




-Chris

 

[Set Harth]

It's entering Saving Private Ryan turf a little I think, with finishing off enemy soldiers with shots at point blank range after they're down.

They already showed that in Landing at Point Rain.

Turning them into soldiers and generals would destroy/change/break them and that Palpatine knew this and that the war was less about power and more a weapon against the jedi.

Which is all well and good, but of course in ROTS we discover that the war is a weapon against the Jedi in a much more direct sense.

 

[timothy]

part 2 awesome umbarian tech is very different from normal seperatist. love the whole worm tanks I hope they make it into a toy soon. l believe this is going to be the first 4 parter in the clone wars right. most of them have been either two parters or three. I hope krell gets whats coming to him and soon. say what you will about anikan he does lead from the front and does so as vader.

I still want to see grievous and krell go at it I think that would be an awesome lightsaber battle.

 

[Set Harth]

say what you will about anikan he does lead from the front and does so as vader.

Are we talking about the same Vader who sat out the Tantive IV battle until all the rebels were dead, and pulled basically the same stunt on Hoth?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It's entering Saving Private Ryan turf a little I think, with finishing off enemy soldiers with shots at point blank range after they're down.

They already showed that in Landing at Point Rain.

You're right, they basically did, but I believe the context was different.

In Landing at Point Rain, a trooper shot a Geonosian who was still on fire and burning (after being hit by a flamethrower, which I'll come back to). It could plausibly have been interpreted as a mercy killing.

But in last night's episode, a trooper shot an Umbaran who was already completely incapacitated. They didn't even check him to make sure he was already dead. The trooper who shot him pronounced him dead first, at least euphemistically, but I think he might have still been moaning (and of course, why shoot someone who's certainly already dead?). It could plausibly have been interpreted as a revenge killing.

There was also a stark contrast between the atmosphere, pacing, and music of these scenes.

Now bringing out the flamethrower in Landing at Point Rain was indeed pretty graphic. But then again, shooting Separatists with blasters and getting shot by blasters is, in general, also violent. The whole show is violent, and we really lack moral context in the majority of cases to know whether the violence is necessary. (But I think we're supposed to assume it is necessary, under the assumption that the Republic's fighting of the overall war is necessary.)

But with Anakin not around and being chipper about everything, the show seems darker. I wonder if that's on purpose. Maybe the point here is that Anakin has been behaving inappropriately cheerful in the midst of all this violence?

YMMV.

 

[Marc]

say what you will about anikan he does lead from the front and does so as vader.

Are we talking about the same Vader who sat out the Tantive IV battle until all the rebels were dead, and pulled basically the same stunt on Hoth?

but lets face it - Vader wasn't exactly built (or should that be rebuilt?) for close quarters combat with blasters etc.

Liked the comment from one of the clone troopers say he preferred and open figth to sneaking around

 

[Professor Zoom]

The whole show is violent, and we really lack moral context in the majority of cases to know whether the violence is necessary. (But I think we're supposed to assume it is necessary, under the assumption that the Republic's fighting of the overall war is necessary.)

Well said. And I think it's why I'm growing a little disenchanted with the show.

 

[DarthPipes]

say what you will about anikan he does lead from the front and does so as vader.

Are we talking about the same Vader who sat out the Tantive IV battle until all the rebels were dead, and pulled basically the same stunt on Hoth?

But Anakin was evil then. Vader had no regard for his men's lives. Anakin did.

Krell is treating the Clones like they are machines, that can just be used up, and casualties don't matter. Plus Krell doesn't seem to Jedi like compared to the others we have seen so far. Maybe it will be Anakin who does Krell in eventually if Anakin's unit is wiped out. I wonder if we will see why Anakin was called away.

I wonder if Palpatine called Anakin away because he knew it was a suicide mission.

Anyone ever read The Battle of Jabiim storyline for the old Star Wars Republic comic?

 

[ALF]

I know I'm supposed to properly turn my brain off to fully enjoy this series, but I'm a bit confused about General Grevious and his first encounters with Obi Wan and Anakin. In ROTS, Anakin clearly seems to be meeting Grevious for the first time "I was expecting someone older"/"You're shorter than I expected"

But a few episodes ago, the surprisingly good Jar-Jar outing in which he impersonates a Gungan leader, Anakin and Grevious fight.

Am I missing something? Did I misinterpret those two "meeting" in ROTS?

Anyway, I'm loving all the action on Umbara. Great season so far. I guess instead of standalones it's all 3 or 4 show arcs.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Anakin never fought Grievous or met him until ROTS.

 

[Whofan]

Yeah, the Jaabim arc was probably one of the better Clone Wars stories before the TV show. Not sure if it's really still in continuity. Palpatine pulling Anakin from a tricky situation is also something that happens in Outbound Flight. I also liked the OT-era sequel from the Empire series, where Luke goes to Jaabim and deals with his father's legacy, and begins to wonder if he really was the hero Obi-Wan implied he was (This comic was of course set before ESB).

 

[timothy]

but like the books it has nothing to do with tv series. remmber they killed of master even piell well before ROTS. he dies in the book trilogy coruscant nights 1: Jedi twilight.

 

[DarthPipes]

Yeah, the Jaabim arc was probably one of the better Clone Wars stories before the TV show. Not sure if it's really still in continuity. Palpatine pulling Anakin from a tricky situation is also something that happens in Outbound Flight. I also liked the OT-era sequel from the Empire series, where Luke goes to Jaabim and deals with his father's legacy, and begins to wonder if he really was the hero Obi-Wan implied he was (This comic was of course set before ESB).

Jabiim made for some good stories for Star Wars comics. The original Clone Wars stories was my favorite of the Republic comics.

A friend of mine wondered if Palpatine put Krell in command of the 501st not to protect Anakin but to create resentment among the clones. Thereby making it easier for them to kill the Jedi when the time comes.

 

[Set Harth]

That really misses the point of the clones as presented in AOTC:

"You'll find they are totally obedient, taking any order without question. We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.