Star Wars: The Clone Wars S4
- Thread starter Mysterion
- Start date
Are we talking about the same Vader who sat out the Tantive IV battle until all the rebels were dead, and pulled basically the same stunt on Hoth?
"Lead from the front" doesn't actually require one to literally be in front of every other soldier (though some do choose to do that), it merely implies that you are able to observe and direct from close proximity the first wave of an assault or the most forward unit(s) on the front, which Vader most certainly did.
On the Tantive VI, Vader was in at the tail end of the first squad. There were still Rebels running around and shooting. The same on Hoth. Vader was in the first wave of ground troops right after the guy said "Imperial troops have entered the base. Imperial troops have entered shhhhhhhhh..." Not to mention piloting his fighter into the Death Star trench to take out the Rebel fighters trying to hit the exhaust port.
I really need to get around to watching this season's episodes.
If The Clone Wars took that literally, it would be impossible to write stories about the clones as protagonists. A bunch of unquestioning zombies don't make good lead characters. They're only good as antagonists, with the focus on the people fighting them.
If The Clone Wars took that literally, it would be impossible to write stories about the clones as protagonists. A bunch of unquestioning zombies don't make good lead characters. They're only good as antagonists, with the focus on the people fighting them.
Not really. Just don't have them questioning legitimate Republic orders except possibly in extreme circumstances. A creative writer could write good stories without going against this principle.
Temis the Vorta said:
Are the clones really the lead characters?
In any event, there's a measurable gap between "conditioned to follow orders from the chain of command" and "unquestioning zombies". If the clones are simply portrayed as nothing more than normal soldiers then you're dumping AOTC out of continuity.
In the episodes that feature them as such: yes.
Well, it's about time the canonical Star Wars franchise were actually wrestling with the question of whether the clones are only automata or in fact sentient beings capable of breaking out of their molds, even if it's wrestling only a little bit.
It would be interesting if Krell wiped out the whole unit under the premise that it was defective and malfunctioning because the clones were starting to exhibit free will.
Does that statement make Obi-Wan's point, or prove him wrong?
Absolutely.
Err...depends on your point of view.
Actually, in seriousness, while the sentence interpreted in absolute terms is paradoxical, in the context in which he said it, I think a reasonable interpretation is simply more along the lines that the world isn't really black and white, and that applying simplistically conceived categories to the world in a rigid manner leads to a deluded perspective.
But, yeah: it's paradoxical like that.
Absolutely.
Err...depends on your point of view.
Actually, in seriousness, while the sentence interpreted in absolute terms is paradoxical, in the context in which he said it, I think a reasonable interpretation is simply more along the lines that the world isn't really black and white, and that applying simplistically conceived categories to the world in a rigid manner leads to a deluded perspective.
But, yeah: it's paradoxical like that.
Well I think that was said just to fit Ben's line in Jedi, and Lucas's twisted libtard beliefs.
If there is a dark side and a light side to the force, it seems to me the Jedi deal in absolutes, and the Sith operates in the shadows. When Jedi start moving into the grey areas they get into trouble, like Anakin, and Luke's failure at the dark force tree on Dagobah. He lashed out in fear and anger.
-Chris
Far be it from me to dump AOTC
but the way the clones have been portrayed in the TV series really conflicts at a basic level with AOTC. They shouldn't be able to think for themselves enough to decide whether orders are legitimate or not.And yeah, they're lead characters far too often. The main reason I haven't bothered catching up with this season so far is that judging from the episode descriptions, too many episodes are about the clones, who I find to be a crashing bore - even as normal soldiers who can exercise free will. If they were the zombies that the AOTC establishes, they'd be useless as characters in the first place.
Neither. It's Lucas, revealing what a shitty writer he is in an unintentionally comic Ed-Woodian way.
What descriptions have you been reading? Up until these past two episodes, the episodes this season have had less to do with the clones as a central feature of the story than almost any time previously in the series. They've been there in the background, but not the focus by any means. The first three episodes were about the Mon Calamari/Republic and Quarren/Separatists fighting a civil war, one was about a conspiracy on Naboo with the Gungans and Separatists, and two were about R2-D2 and C-3PO getting in silly adventures.
Temis the Vorta said:
I don't think so ( other than in the case of Cut Lawquane ).
Temis the Vorta said:
That's not a corollary of AOTC. That would actually make AOTC unworkable.
Temis the Vorta said:
Well, "conditioned to obey Republic orders" does not mean "zombies". There's a large middle ground between "zombies" and the opposite extreme, which would be making all orders subject to clone approval based on whether or not the order makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside. You can't base a functioning army on that principle. The chain of command starts at the top, not the bottom.
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I'm not enjoying this storyline much and making it 4 parts -- the longest single storyline I can ever remember them doing -- seems excessive, especially when it's almost completely about characters original to the show. Krell is an unbelievable character, constantly obstructionist and unreasonable with no real justification, constantly rejecting good ideas and favoring bad ones just because the script demands it. There's no good rationale for why he is the way he is, or how he's managed to gain such status with such bad tactics.
I really disliked the first act of part 1, where practically the whole thing was just shooting and dying and "fog of war" stuff. I guess they were going for a Saving Private Ryan sort of thing, but if so, that convinces me I never want to see that movie. People shooting at each other is something I find boring and unpleasant to watch. So I was barely paying attention to that whole extended battle sequence. The later stuff has been better because it's actually involved characters saying words to each other and having opinions and feelings and stuff. But it suffers from the caricatured portrayal of Krell and the difficulty telling the clone characters apart (though I'll grant they are pretty distinctively drawn personality-wise; it just takes some time and practice to get the hang of telling them apart visually).
My favorite thing was the alternate holotechnology used in this episode, the images made up of distinct cubic voxels. It was conceptually intriguing and clever and a refreshing change from the rather silly, antiquated look of Star Wars holograms in general. (Seriously, if they're supposed to be 3D, how come they always have perfectly straight scan lines running through them?)
I really disliked the first act of part 1, where practically the whole thing was just shooting and dying and "fog of war" stuff. I guess they were going for a Saving Private Ryan sort of thing, but if so, that convinces me I never want to see that movie. People shooting at each other is something I find boring and unpleasant to watch. So I was barely paying attention to that whole extended battle sequence. The later stuff has been better because it's actually involved characters saying words to each other and having opinions and feelings and stuff. But it suffers from the caricatured portrayal of Krell and the difficulty telling the clone characters apart (though I'll grant they are pretty distinctively drawn personality-wise; it just takes some time and practice to get the hang of telling them apart visually).
My favorite thing was the alternate holotechnology used in this episode, the images made up of distinct cubic voxels. It was conceptually intriguing and clever and a refreshing change from the rather silly, antiquated look of Star Wars holograms in general. (Seriously, if they're supposed to be 3D, how come they always have perfectly straight scan lines running through them?)
Nice to see the addition of proto X-Wings next to the Y-Wings precursors.
I believe the proto-X-wings are Z-95 Headhunters, which I first saw in the Tie Fighter PC video game.
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