Gul Dukat one of the best villans ever?

[GeneHunt]

Really well written character, has a multitude of dimensions, and I just love how sly he is, during the eve of the Dominion War you can tell he is just playing along with Weyoun/The Founders and has ever intention of kicking them out once he becomes strong enough.

Thoughts?

 

[Deckerd]

Years of development squandered with a ridiculous story in the final season. Dukat became a joke.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Even then, with the Pah-Wraiths, his downfall came because he thought he could hold the tiger by the tail. He thought he could control them rather than them possessing him and essentially rewriting his priorities. He got what he deserved through the results of his own hubris. Maybe not everybody likes the mythological overtones, but I thought that what started his downfall (beginning with his insanity in "Waltz," but really being sealed when he arrogantly thought he could control the Pah-Wraiths in "Tears of the Prophets") was very much in character. As far as what happened after that, while we do see a lot of the same smarmy, two-faced Dukat in "Covenant," which I consider to be a very nuanced, high-quality performance, the truth is that the Pah-Wraiths "programmed" him to be what they wanted. The control freak wound up controlled in the end.

 

[tomalak301]

I still think Scorpius is the best villain ever because he was consistent throughout the entire series. I can't look past Gul Dukat as a Bajoran in that awful storyline that almost ruined the entire final chapter for me. If we were talking about the previous 6 years though, I might agree with you.

 

[The Dominion]

Dukat would have rocked the end story if the writers hadn't thought he needed to be boosted by the Pah Wraiths. Even crazy and destitute, Dukat just needs Dukat.

 

[Sandoval]

Scorpius takes the title over Dukat. Dukat was good character and villan but Scorpius was truly unsettling.

Plus Dukat neglected to wear black bondage gear, so he'll always come second to Scorpius in that respect.

 

[toughlittleship]

Marc Alaimo should have gotten an Emmy for playing Dukat, especially for "Waltz".

 

[The Dominion]

Scorpius takes the title over Dukat. Dukat was good character and villan but Scorpius was truly unsettling.

Plus Dukat neglected to wear black bondage gear, so he'll always come second to Scorpius in that respect.

At least Dukat never wore this:

(And yes, I know it was a "clone.")

 

[Sandoval]

At least Dukat never wore this:

Please!

Dukat couldn't carry off that straw-hat, Hawaiian-shirt combo with anywhere near as much aplomb as Scorpius.

That photo does nothing but bolster my argument that Dukat ultimately can't hold a candle to Scorpy.

 

[tomalak301]

Is it wrong that that picture makes me love Scoripus over Dukat a whole lot more?

 

[sonak]

until season 6 yes. Then, as others mentioned, they took a complex, nuanced character and turned him into a cartoony comic book supervillain.

 

[RoJoHen]

Is it wrong that that picture makes me love Scoripus over Dukat a whole lot more?

Nope. That picture is the reason you should love Scorpius more than Dukat.

 

[Amaris]

Dukat was best villain up until the end of Season 6. Then they went a little k-wacky.

 

[toughlittleship]

I've never understood why some don't like Dukat's final arc. They wanted to bring him closer to Sisko as an enemy (effectively making him the Emissary of the Pah-wraith) and that is what they did. His collaboration with the Pah-wraiths was another quest for ultimate power.

 

[Deckerd]

The whole pah wraith thang was a load of rubbish. The wormhole aliens were sufficiently enigmatic, disinterested and powerful to cause havoc without recourse to the old god versus the devil scenario, which I really hoped DS9 would manage to avoid for its entire run. The last season was a disgrace from start to finish with very little to alleviate the garbage.

 

[tomalak301]

I've never understood why some don't like Dukat's final arc. They wanted to bring him closer to Sisko as an enemy (effectively making him the Emissary of the Pah-wraith) and that is what they did. His collaboration with the Pah-wraiths was another quest for ultimate power.

I think the reason I didn't like it was because in the 3-4 plot points going on during the Final chapter, the whole Pah Wraith angle was the least interesting, most boring plot and it detracted from all the interesting stuff going on.

 

[Ln X]

I really liked where Dukat went from Waltz. Crazy, psychotic and god knows what else. I think the problem that people had with the Pah Wraiths vs Prophets (as shown in the last DS9 story arc) was that it was mythology instead of spirituality. Being religious myself I loved everything about the Bajoran religion. That's what made the Dukat/Winn story arc so interesting and good, because it seems so biblical and I like that.

So Dukat was the best villain in Star Trek, that's for sure.

 

[sonak]

Well I disliked his arc over the last season and a half both because of the pah-wraith ridiculousness(really, DS9 writers? angels vs demons mythology on Star Trek?) and for what it did to Dukat's character.

Dukat was supposed to be a complex machiavellian manipulator with charm, not some one-dimensional true-believer cultist.


Really, if you actually LIKED Dukat's season 7 arc I question whether you really liked the early seasons Dukat in the first place, because they're nothing alike.

 

[rahullak]

I disagree. Shinzon is the best villain ever!

 

[Ln X]

Well I disliked his arc over the last season and a half both because of the pah-wraith ridiculousness(really, DS9 writers? angels vs demons mythology on Star Trek?) and for what it did to Dukat's character.

Dukat was supposed to be a complex machiavellian manipulator with charm, not some one-dimensional true-believer cultist.


Really, if you actually LIKED Dukat's season 7 arc I question whether you really liked the early seasons Dukat in the first place, because they're nothing alike.

I really liked the early seasons (well from season 4 and onwards, because Dukat was rather one-dimensional in seasons 1 to 3) Dukat featured in, problem was after Sacrifice of Angels, the writers wrote themselves into a hole with Dukat. He was now captured by the Federation, and a complete shell of his former self, so what could they do? I like what they did with Dukat with and after Waltz, because I think it made him a more interesting character.

Covenant is a really good episode, because you don't really know if Dukat has genuine faith in the Pah Wraiths, or is simply following them to pursue his desires for power. And the Dukat/Winn story arc, I thought it was really clever how Dukat manipulated Winn into joining his cause. I guess Dukat only got one-dimensional towards the very end which was the showdown between Sisko and Dukat in the Fire Caves.

But even that it's still pretty good, because Dukat got what he wanted. I just think people are too readily prepared to knock the Dukat character after Waltz.