You're thinking that Yoda and Obi-Wan had the same plans for Luke and I don't think that's the case, Konobi thought Luke was their only hope but Yoda thought otherwise. Still conquer doesn't mean kill and itwas Palpatine who forsaw that Luke would destory him as Vader told Luke,
Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.
- Thread starter TheLobes
- Start date
You're thinking that Yoda and Obi-Wan had the same plans for Luke and I don't think that's the case, Konobi thought Luke was their only hope but Yoda thought otherwise. Still conquer doesn't mean kill and itwas Palpatine who forsaw that Luke would destory him as Vader told Luke,
Luke was there to turn Vader back into Anakin if all Yoda wanted was Vader dead he could've done it himself, It was odd enough that Yoda remained hidden from both Palpatine and Vader in the first place.
Funny, but in the end that's really Luke did it was Anakin who killed Palpatine. Had Yoda told Luke about Roce lightning we'd all know about and it wouldn't have surprised Luke or the audience. And it's odd now that people are finding flaws in the OT.
Funny, but in the end that's really Luke did it was Anakin who killed Palpatine. Had Yoda told Luke about Roce lightning we'd all know about and it wouldn't have surprised Luke or the audience. And it's odd now that people are finding flaws in the OT.
While I certainly don't think the OT is flawless, I don't think that this particular plot point is a flaw. I think it's rather clear what's going on:
Obi-Wan and Yoda are training Luke to be a Jedi Knight so that he can do what they couldn't: defeat Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
To make their jobs easier, they decide not to tell him that Vader's his father.
Vader himself sabotages this plan when he reveals the truth to Luke.
That unexpected revelation allows Luke to find a totally DIFFERENT path to victory, involving turning Vader back to the Light.
pretty clear to me. I didn't think there was this confusion about it.
I also think that they didn't tell Luke that Vader was his father right off the bat because of the immediate emotional conflict that Luke would have gone through. We saw what he went through at the end of Empire when Anakin decided to tell him. Yoda already thought he wasn't emotionally mature enough to train in the first place. We know that personal emotion and attachment is very important part of training (one of the reasons why Anakin fell to the dark side). A Jedi must have a clear mind and heart...and the two of them knew that Luke wasn't ready to learn of his parentage.
I used to have the game. It's pretty dated now, but it was one of the first Star Wars game to have RPG elements (Which would be elaborated further on in the KOTOR games). Also you could play as four different characters. (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Padme and Panaka). Also you can use the lightsaber anywhere, even to strike down civilians in Mos Espa, which of course turns the whole town on you.
"Starfighter" I think is considered the best TPM-based game, with "Racer" and "Battle for Naboo" next. There's also the Episode I Insider's Guide which has a lot of background info on the film (It's the counterpart to the earlier "Behind the Magic" CD). There were however, no AOTC or ROTS CDs.
"Starfighter" I think is considered the best TPM-based game, with "Racer" and "Battle for Naboo" next. There's also the Episode I Insider's Guide which has a lot of background info on the film (It's the counterpart to the earlier "Behind the Magic" CD). There were however, no AOTC or ROTS CDs.
Maybe in the console world. The only PC game I have played loosely based on Episode I was Galactic Battlegrounds, which was basically an Age of Empires II mod with Star Wars characters. There was a story mode that took you through various battles in Episode I, most of which were completely made up.
Unless there is a cut scene where Darth Maul leads an army of battle droids to capture Queen Amadala, and Qui Gonn has to rescue her safely across the map.
Funny, but in the end that's really Luke did it was Anakin who killed Palpatine. Had Yoda told Luke about Roce lightning we'd all know about and it wouldn't have surprised Luke or the audience. And it's odd now that people are finding flaws in the OT.
While I certainly don't think the OT is flawless, I don't think that this particular plot point is a flaw. I think it's rather clear what's going on:
Obi-Wan and Yoda are training Luke to be a Jedi Knight so that he can do what they couldn't: defeat Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
To make their jobs easier, they decide not to tell him that Vader's his father.
Vader himself sabotages this plan when he reveals the truth to Luke.
That unexpected revelation allows Luke to find a totally DIFFERENT path to victory, involving turning Vader back to the Light.
pretty clear to me. I didn't think there was this confusion about it.
I agree, and it's amazing that this story was developed ad-hoc since it works so well as one self-contained story. The Hero starts on one journey, at a lower level of simple externalized good-vs-evil conflict, and around the midpoint of the story, the journey pivots to be an internalized conflict (if his father had gone bad, then Luke himself could be evil too) that the Hero conquers by first conquering himself - his need for revenge. Luke's forgiveness of Vader is what allowed him to win, which is something Yoda and Obi-Wan would not have thought of.
The PT needed some simple but archetypal story of that sort at its heart. "Young idiot fucks everything up" does not really work. (If the PT had been a black comedy, that could have been a good core story.) Since the story ultimately comes around to "the Jedi's flaw is that they don't understand the power of forgiveness" (they needed Luke to figure that out) then maybe the theme should have been that the Jedi contributed to the disaster in the PT by being too unforgiving? There was certainly enough material in the PT to make that plausible, although I wouldn't want to see Anakin get let entirely off the hook, either.
Or maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan lacked faith in the power of forgiveness. Which would be a neat full-circle thing since in ANH, Luke is the one who had to learn to have faith, and by ROTJ, he was teaching the Jedi lessons in the power of faith.
I think that they didn't tell Luke that Vader was his father was because it was all part of what was needed to become a Jedi. Yoda said that "not ready for the burden were you. Even in the prequels, it's suggested that a Jedi must be able to release burdens and attachments. He needed to fiind out his parentage through a face-to-face confrontation as a means of truly becoming a Jedi through the hardest test possible: learning the truth, and being able to withstand such truth without falling into rage, temptation and wrath. That's why Luke was a Jedi when he visited Yoda in Jedi despite having not recieved any furhter training. 'already know that what you need' means that he was able to not give in even under the extreme pressures of rage and temptation. See, being a Jedi, especially in the OT, was all about the kind of person you were, and not strictly a matter of tricks and training. Keep in mind the phrase both Yoda and Obi-wan repeat over and over 'let the Force flow through you;' I think that the person should be a conduit, and if that person is a good person with good intentions, the force will flow through them and help exemplify and even magnify those qualities.
I can but that.
But can we all at least agree that whoever decided to have Obi Wan deny everything with his "from a certain point of view" speech needs to go sit in the corner?
eh, I don't think we're supposed to really buy that line of defense anyway. You'll notice that Luke gives him an incredulous look and repeats disbelievingly "a certain point of view!?"
Also, that stands out less after the PT, which as I wrote before, makes almost all of the backstory Obi-Wan gives in the OT misleading.
I agree about the PT, but disagree that we weren't supposed to buy Obi-Wan's story. I think Kasdan and Lucas thought the viewer would buy Obi-Wan's reasoning and he'd come out appearing to have not lied.
Because Jedi certainly don't lie...
