+1 on this. This is why it's never really bothered me that no one mentions Sith in the OT. Who really who would know about it in the general populace? We spend most of our time in the PT with Jedi who know about the Sith all too well because it relates specifically to their secret order, while in the OT we spend our time with the regular folk, who never would be exposed to that term in their normal, work-a-day lives.
Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.
- Thread starter TheLobes
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+1 on this. This is why it's never really bothered me that no one mentions Sith in the OT. Who really who would know about it in the general populace? We spend most of our time in the PT with Jedi who know about the Sith all too well because it relates specifically to their secret order, while in the OT we spend our time with the regular folk, who never would be exposed to that term in their normal, work-a-day lives.
^ Eh, I think, for Luke, the familial connection was more relevant than the "Sith" label.
Since George Lucas keeps revising the original trilogy, maybe he use CGI versions of Obi Wan and Yoda to warn Luke about the Sith in a future 50th anniversary edition of the original Star Wars.
As it is, Luke is very much in the dark about the people he's supposed to be personally saving the galaxy from. Seems odd, especially since the future training of any resurrected Jedi order invariably falls on his shoulders.
Let's not forget that Obi-Wan and Yoda were kind of strapped for resources, Ben being exiled to Tatooine and Yoda living on a swamp planet. It's not like they had the time or the resources of the Jedi Temple at their disposal while training Luke. Not to mention the purpose of keeping Luke from the Emperor and Vader in the first place, there was little that Obi-Wan could have done.
Again as I attempted to point out a few pages ago but seem to be ignroed, there was no reason to mention the word Sith in the original trilogy. Palpatine had cemented his rulership over the galaxy and defeated the Jedi Order by the time of the first "Star Wars" film. The Sith work in secret. They hide. There is no need for anyone to know who the are, even the Jedi Order who are their enemies thought they were vanquished until Qui-Jon was attacked and killed by Darth Maul. There was no reason for Paps to openly declare he was a Sith Lord. Remember too he attempts to pine his physical deformity on the Jedi as well. There is no reason at all for their to be any mention of the Sith Order in the original trilogy until perhaps Return of the Jedi.
Again as I attempted to point out a few pages ago but seem to be ignroed, there was no reason to mention the word Sith in the original trilogy. Palpatine had cemented his rulership over the galaxy and defeated the Jedi Order by the time of the first "Star Wars" film. The Sith work in secret. They hide. There is no need for anyone to know who the are, even the Jedi Order who are their enemies thought they were vanquished until Qui-Jon was attacked and killed by Darth Maul. There was no reason for Paps to openly declare he was a Sith Lord. Remember too he attempts to pine his physical deformity on the Jedi as well. There is no reason at all for their to be any mention of the Sith Order in the original trilogy until perhaps Return of the Jedi.
Except that they are the villains and played a major role in the prequels!
Like I said, I understand this wasn't figured out when the OT was filmed, but it does seem odd when the films are viewed in order.
Are you saying the Sith shouldn't have been mentioned in the PT either? If that is the case, I agree. They simply should have stuck with fallen Jedi as the enemies, and thus avoided throwing in words and terminology not used in the original movies.
The Sith were destroyed a thousand years before and hiding out as a secret society so Soviets is a horrible analogy. Even Nazi's haven't been defeated for a century yet. A thousand years is a long time for a defeated enemy to lose the fear associated with them.
Mongols might be a good analogy as the scourge of the western and eastern worlds. Who's afraid of them now?
Illuminati or some other secret society might be the best analogy, maybe Freemasons/Templars, particularly if give a though to the 'skull and bones' tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff WRT various US presidents.
Indeed. Outside of the time limitations, maybe Yoda would have given Luke some practical training such as a counter to the Emperor's lightning if he had stuck around instead of impulsively running off into the trap. Their name alone is irrelevant minutia. Just like we never heard Boba Fett's name in TESB, we don't need to hear "Sith" on camera in ROTJ.
The Sith and the Bogan go waaay back into Lucas' early drafts and they were always the enemy of the Jedi and their opposites in the Force. Why are you making it harder than it needs to be?
I agree that was the case in the prequels, when the Jedi talked about the Sith every other scene. But in the OT, the Sith had been ruling the galaxy for 20 years! They were no longer a secret society. There was no reason to pretend they don't exist.
What am I making hard? I simply said it's strange there is no mention of them in the OT. It doesn't matter that the word was used in early drafts, does it?
Certainly not the most gregarious example of why the prequels don't exactly fit with the originals, but worth mentioning. Just not worth arguing over!
You're assuming the Jedi private discussions about the Sith was put into the public record of the Senate or in the wanted posters for the missing Dark Lord. I'd say Yoda and Mace's discussion in AOTC (after they discuss Obi-Wan's revelation about the clones) outright shows they were keeping it close to the vest.
In fact the lack of mention of the Sith makes it most likely that they were still a very secret society doesn't it?
It does when combined with the promo/marketing material which gives Vader's status as Dark Lord of was used just as much as Boba Fett's name for TESB that anyone with a moderate amount of interest in the movies, toys, or games would have run into.
You're trying to turn absence of evidence into evidence and absence despite a bunch of reasons for the opposite conclusion to be more intuitive.
Isn't that what you're doing?
Uxi said:
It may be significant that Yoda is the only Jedi seen deflecting Force lightning with his bare hands. Going by the examples of Mace and Obi-Wan ( or Luke in the EU's Thrawn trilogy ), the lightsaber seems to serve as the typical method of Force lightning deflection. Yoda's ability in this area may reflect his long years of experience and affinity with the Force, and if so it could be an area where a simple "crash course" would be inadequate. In ROTJ it almost seems as if Luke is trying something like this technique for a moment but is not strong enough.
It's not like we saw every minute of every day of Luke's training...for all we know, Yoda sat Luke in his hut and put him to sleep lecturing him about the history of the Sith....
I'd hardly call Padme a commoner.
Whaaaa?
I'm just saying that Kenobi and Yoda should have mentioned the Sith to Luke. You'd think the Emperor would as well, but we will leave it just at those two. Secret society or not, the Jedi talked about them constantly during episode I,II,and III. The Jedi know the Sith are ruling the galaxy, and are priming Luke to face the Sith.
But they never explain what a Sith is? Even when they say that Vader turned to the dark side? No mention that he became a Sith?
You keep arguing that the Sith are secret, and I get that. But are Obi Wan and Yoda fighting to keep them a secret? If so, why would they do that?
I don't think they needed to tell Luke everything, his job was turn Vader back into Anakin since they pretty knew that Luke would never kill Vader.
This is strange. If they don't tell Luke about the Sith, who exactly is left to know the identity of the enemy of the Jedi, an enemy which has been vanquished and resurrected in the past? Anyway if Obi Wan and Yoda secretly agreed that knowledge of the Sith should die with them, this fact could have been depicted in the films. Certainly it's as relevant as the mind wipe of the droids in Revenge.
No, all Obi-Wan told him was that he had to confront Vader, I'm sure they both knew that Luke could feel the good in him. It was Luke who took the word confront to mean he had to kill Vader.
nope. Luke says "I can't kill my own father."
Obi-Wan says "then the emperor has already won."
When Luke says there's still good in Vader, Obi-Wan responds that Vader "is more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
And Yoda tells Luke that only a fully trained Jedi with the Force as his ally will CONQUER Vader and his emperor.
Trying to redeem Vader is entirely Luke's idea, Obi-Wan and Yoda are just surprised and happy that it worked.
