Is it really that super unrealistic Kirks rank jump...

[DrBashir]

It's not a Trek movie unless the Enterprise is the only ship there. It can be out there, all by itself or all the others ships in the Earth fleet can get blown away in the time it takes Sulu to find the parking brake but you have to have the Enterprise be the last ship standing and the only one that can save the Earth.

I think it would have been more interesting to keep Vulcan and actually have Nero destroy Earth just so we can't have the old "alien probe threatens Earth" bit. The general population watching the movie just know of Vulcan as Spocks home world but they all live on the earth. I think it would have made (wait for it...) a bigger bang.

 

[Set Harth]

I still don't like how the attack on Vulcan interrupts the hearing on Kirk's performance during the Kobayashi Maru test. Kirk never receives the commendation for original thinking; instead, they make it seem like he cheated.

That was my thought in the theaters, too. I was just waiting (WAITING!) for Admiral Madea to give the commendation. Sure, Kirk might have gotten it after the crisis was resolved, but I wanted to see it happen, especially after how nicely tense the verbal dual was between him and Spock.

It's an alternate timeline.

This time around he gets a wedgie.

 

[DrBashir]

Given a choice between a commendation for original thinking and a big ass starship with enough power to destroy a planet, I'd take the starship myself.

 

[Cadet49]

Kirk's promotion at the end of movie was so unrealistic that it completely pulled me out of the film... this guy is a cadet one day, and captain of the flagship on the next day??? That's like me graduating from teachers college one day, then being named the principal of my school district's largest high school the next day ... just makes no sense to me. At this point, I just can't picture Pine's Kirk as the commanding presence that Shatner was ... I'll be interested to see if Pine and the writers can capture that command presence in the next movie ...Pine is great as a young cadet Kirk, but I'm waiting to see how he handles being "Captain Kirk" in the next movie ... will we see him delivering a soliloquy on the human condition, playing three dimensional chess with Spock, reading Shakespeare ... or will this be an almost totally different Kirk???

 

[DrBashir]

Don't worry about it, he makes Admiral at the end of the next one and is elected President of the Federation in the third.

 

[Yevetha]

Kirk actualy had shown some character growth as Captain in the new IDW comic.

 

[tighr]

I can't remember what article I read after the movie came out, but it was written by someone in the military. They said that while its plausible that Pike could give him a field promotion to First Officer, its not plausible that Starfleet would award him the actual rank of Captain, especially not of the fleet flagship.

The far more likely scenario would be "Congratulations Cadet Kirk, here's your medal of commendation. We are promoting you to Lieutenant Junior Grade."

 

[6079SmithW]

The far more likely scenario would be "Congratulations Cadet Kirk, here's your medal of commendation. We are promoting you to Lieutenant Junior Grade."

Except that Kirk was already a full O-3 Lieutenant.

 

[tighr]

The far more likely scenario would be "Congratulations Cadet Kirk, here's your medal of commendation. We are promoting you to Lieutenant Junior Grade."

Except that Kirk was already a full O-3 Lieutenant.

Which also made no sense. Why, in this universe, were cadets granted any kind of rank?

 

[6079SmithW]

Maybe he was on a fast command track due to his superior aptitude scores? Maybe he had already passed starfleet's version of undergrad and was in their grad school, thus a commissioned officer and a "cadet" at the same time? Just because starfleet is based on 20th century anglo-american militaries doesn't mean it has to be absolutely the same.

 

[M'Sharak]

The far more likely scenario would be "Congratulations Cadet Kirk, here's your medal of commendation. We are promoting you to Lieutenant Junior Grade."

Except that Kirk was already a full O-3 Lieutenant.

Which also made no sense. Why, in this universe, were cadets granted any kind of rank?

Couldn't be entered in the ship's duty roster without a rank, perhaps? In Kirk's case, would being designated First Officer have required him to hold an officer's rank for protocol purposes, or do you just leave that field blank on the computer record?

 

[Yminale]

The writers obviously screwed up or didn't know that you don't need to have a grade of Captain to command a ship. I'm sure someone mentioned TNG's "Arsenal of Freedom" where Geordi was given command even though he was a Lt. JG. As for the cadet thing, the time between ensign and Lt. JG is a probationary period of about a year and you really need to screw up NOT to get promoted.

Honestly TOS Kirk made captain in 8 years. That's really unrealistic therefore movie Kirk's promotion isn't so strange.

 

[Yevetha]

Honestly TOS Kirk made captain in 8 years. That's really unrealistic therefore movie Kirk's promotion isn't so strange.
__________________

It depends.

people tend to move up more quickly during war time, because competence and courage starts to really matter.

 

[tighr]

Maybe he had already passed starfleet's version of undergrad and was in their grad school, thus a commissioned officer and a "cadet" at the same time?

Maybe so, however unlikely. The writers definitely screwed up. At the beginning of the film, Pike tells Kirk "Starfleet could use you. You could be an officer in four years. You could have your own ship in eight." While unlikely that he really could make Captain in four years after becoming an officer, I'm willing to let that slide because Pike saw aptitude in Kirk. This clearly implies that Kirk would be a cadet while in the Academy, holding no rank other than Cadet. He is able to graduate in 3 years, but should still be a cadet. Presumably, this is so he can graduate at the same time as Uhura, who was already a cadet when they meet. The bar scene takes place three years prior to the main events of the movie.

Just because starfleet is based on 20th century anglo-american militaries doesn't mean it has to be absolutely the same.

I'm not using anglo-american military as my reference point, I'm using every other canon reference of Starfleet Academy in all of Star Trek. Everyone who attends the academy does so as a Cadet, and is given the rank of ensign upon graduation.

Other characters in Star Trek:
Picard graduates the Academy in 2327, and is promoted to Captain of the Stargazer in 2333 (six-seven years) from the rank of Lieutenant Commander. Presumably, this means he skipped a rank. Of course, there are similar extenuating circumstances here, given that his entire bridge crew was killed in an attack.

James Kirk (TOS) graduates the academy in 2254 with the rank of ensign. He is a lieutenant by 2255, and is Captain of the Enterprise in 2264 (ten years) at the age of 31. Not sure where the earlier claim of 8 years for TOS Kirk came from, but if my canon is incorrect then I'll revise.

Captain Scott of the USS Renegade from TNG episode Conspiracy was the youngest officer to ever attain Captain, although its not stated how long it took her to do that. Given what we know about Picard, it must have been damn quick.

 

[6079SmithW]

The writers definitely screwed up.

Or more likely they didn't care. Kirk was going to be captain of the Enterprise by the end of the movie regardless of whatever rank they gave him at the start of the film. People are familiar with Captain Kirk, not cadet Kirk or Lieutenant Kirk. Everything that occurs after he enrolls in the Academy is a plot device to get Kirk into the big chair.

Just because starfleet is based on 20th century anglo-american militaries doesn't mean it has to be absolutely the same.

I'm not using anglo-american military as my reference point

Well, even Prime Starfleet is based on old anglo-american naval traditions and as others have pointed out up thread there is historical precedent for unusual rank jumps.

I'm using every other canon reference of Starfleet Academy in all of Star Trek. Everyone who attends the academy does so as a Cadet, and is given the rank of ensign upon graduation.

This is a rebooted/alternate Trek and Prime canon no longer applies in many cases, including (apparently) the rank status of a cadet and how promotions work.

 

[JarodRussell]

LOL yeah, because the destruction of the Kelvin completely changed the entire command hierarchy in Starfleet.

 

[6079SmithW]

LOL yeah, because the destruction of the Kelvin completely changed the entire command hierarchy in Starfleet.

Maybe. You never know...

Now since Trek is rebooted Orci and Kutzman have a blank slate to do whatever they want, including promoting a cadet to captain.

 

[gastrof]

Kirk's going thru the KM test and already having the rank of Lt. is in perfect step with Saavik's experience at the start of Star Trek II.

And she also was apparently somehow still at the Academy, as was he.

 

[6079SmithW]

^Exactly. The "unrealistic" rank jump has precedent in real life and Prime Trek, needless to say that the writers can tell the story in whatever way they choose regardless of precedent.

 

[Danoz]

I think it feels strange to debate the plot in this movie considering none of this story was meant to be taken seriously. Of course a jump to captain is ridiculous, but so is the old Spock's idea that nuKirk is "meant" to be Captain and that Kirk and young Spock are somehow destined to friendship.

NuKirk is arrogant, abrasive, and somewhat annoying. I can see him ending up as a field captain given the insane circumstances but, retaining it and the Enterprise? Starfleet is already a well-established organization with many high-profile captains and a serious chain of command. But, I digress.

PEOPLE, the movie is EYE CANDY. It's intellectual masturbation. Don't get me wrong, the movie is a lot of fun, but trying to explain plot devices the way we might the finer points of the Dominion War is just silly .