Is it really that super unrealistic Kirks rank jump...

[tighr]

I don't know, I don't really have any desire to see a proper military Star Trek.

I'm actually very fascinated with the rank structure in Star Trek. When I watch episodes/movies, I am very aware of how many pips or stripes so-and-so is wearing, and who outranks whom. It is part of the fun of Trek for me. Some of my biggest gripes are the costuming errors prevalent on the shows by those with limited understanding of rank structure, such as Chief O'Brien having multiple ranks before officially becoming a Petty Officer, and Chakotay wearing Lt. Cmdr insignia despite being referred to as a commander. Tuvok wore Lt. Comdr insignia most of season 1 of Voyager before someone fixed the glitch, then they promoted him anyway later in the series.

This movie was an abomination in the way rank was handled, but a lot of that can be hand-waved as the mistakes of the writers/costumers. They may have been unfamiliar with how rank actually works, and as others have stated in this thread the whole point was to end the movie with Kirk as Captain (a plot point with which I still disagree).

If you think about it from an outsider perspective (i.e., someone not part of the main cast), there are going to be a ton of officers who are pissed that Kirk rank-jumps them, especially since they've put the time and effort into becoming command division personnel. The lack of diplomatic experience is also a hindrance to Kirk being a successful leader. Also, the film generally shows him as hard-headed, and despite the fact that he does save Earth he probably should have been thrown in the brig. That kind of insubordination shouldn't be tolerated, let alone rewarded.

 

[DrBashir]

My take on the matter with Captain Kirk becoming Captain is it's no more silly than half of the stuff in Starfleet over the years.

It's also entirely reasonable if Admiral Pike is going to be micromanaging Kirk and Spock from a desk.

In which case, Kirk is really just Pike's First Officer still.

His "legs" if I may be crass.

If Kirk is anything like his prime counterpart then he'll listen politely to Pike and then ignore him anyway.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I'm actually very fascinated with the rank structure in Star Trek. When I watch episodes/movies, I am very aware of how many pips or stripes so-and-so is wearing, and who outranks whom. It is part of the fun of Trek for me. Some of my biggest gripes are the costuming errors prevalent on the shows by those with limited understanding of rank structure, such as Chief O'Brien having multiple ranks before officially becoming a Petty Officer, and Chakotay wearing Lt. Cmdr insignia despite being referred to as a commander. Tuvok wore Lt. Comdr insignia most of season 1 of Voyager before someone fixed the glitch, then they promoted him anyway later in the series.

I actually share these concerns and love the minutia of Starfleet. It's just I actually do accept Picard's premise they're not a military organization. Starfleet is much closer to the universe's most powerful NASA where a bunch of civilians and military people work hand-in-pocket for a variety of goals.

Sometimes, it's hauling cargo. Sometimes it's diplomacy. Sometimes it's scientific experiments. Sometimes it's war. Unlike the military, you can basically stay in your one position forever and not be considered a failure. The "upward mobility" of RL militaries is just not a concern in Starfleet.

This movie was an abomination in the way rank was handled, but a lot of that can be hand-waved as the mistakes of the writers/costumers. They may have been unfamiliar with how rank actually works, and as others have stated in this thread the whole point was to end the movie with Kirk as Captain (a plot point with which I still disagree).

I imagine they did know how rank works and simply chose to state that Starfleet doesn't work that way. A mistake only applies to RL matters unless the creator says otherwise.

If you think about it from an outsider perspective (i.e., someone not part of the main cast), there are going to be a ton of officers who are pissed that Kirk rank-jumps them, especially since they've put the time and effort into becoming command division personnel. The lack of diplomatic experience is also a hindrance to Kirk being a successful leader. Also, the film generally shows him as hard-headed, and despite the fact that he does save Earth he probably should have been thrown in the brig. That kind of insubordination shouldn't be tolerated, let alone rewarded.

In this universe, Captain Jonathan Archer has already set the guidelines for Starfleet. That means that he made wide-ranging unilateral decisions of diplomacy, military engagement, and scientific value on a regular basis without consulting anyone. Remember when he turned over a Vulcan (ally) listening post to the Vulcan's enemies?

If they didn't cashier Archer for half the stuff in the first season of Enterprise, why would for Kirk?

Besides, in this universe, any sane and rational military doctrine would get everyone killed because it's a universe where you HAVE to make peace with hostile psychotic alien forces or godlike aliens will exterminate you. It's why I prefer crazy Starfleet.