6.5X012 Closing Time (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[David cgc]

I'm really curious to see if he can satisfactorily wrap up the River/Silence arc. Why does River have to wear an astronaut suit?

Can't breathe water? Doesn't want to do it, so the suit forces her (which, granted, just prompts the question "Why does the space suit have to wear a River?")?

Why does Patchy have to speak in poems? Kind of strange, off-putting, really.

Well, we last heard that rhyme in "Night Terrors." So, we have an alien that steals parents, and a woman that steals children, both singing the same rhyme. The question is, is the connection explicit or just thematic?

 

[Australis]

This was fun. Matt Smith was on top form, the baby joke never got old, the Rory/Amy cameo was great (is this post-"God Complex" for them? I suspect so), I loved the gay jokes.

Both endings were lame, though, both a dad's love saves the day (which we saw a few episodes back!) and the too-long River Song thing. Just have eyepatch lady pop up... we don't need another lame nursery rhyme.

That was basically what I was going to say..

Loved the Rory/Amy cameo, and as someone above said, the baby joke never got old. The coda was interesting but seemed, for some reason, overlong.

Yes, the ending was lame and cliché, but I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that most of those people who didn't like it... aren't parents.

<runs for cover. Fast.>

 

[The Nth Doctor]

There really hasn't been a really decent standalone Cybermen story since 1981's Earthshock IMO...

Quite true and rather disappointing. Arguably every Cybermen story through The Invasion is at least good, if not great. But since then only Earthshock was any good. I still hate how "Rise of the Cybermen"/"The Age of Steel" badly mangled Big Finish's excellent "Spare Parts," which I believe is the best Cybermen story in any format and one of the best Doctor Who stories overall.

And I did also like the way the Doctor kept thinking aloud to people, showing why he always has companions...

Yeah, I did like that touch as well, although this is something we've seen all of The Doctors do to some extent.

The ending sucked, though - love overrides Cyberconversion? (They might as well give up on conversion, between Yvonne wossface in Doomsday, and Dervla Kirwan in The Next Doctor) And wouldn't they just have killed him, then? He's still got useable arms and legs and stuff... And if emotion in a conversion subject created lethal feedback, they could never convert a person without being killed by their victims' terror! And of course what the Cybes actually do to people seems to have changed yet again. It felt like a "shit, how do we wrap this up five minutes earlier than normal so we can get in the lead-in to next week's finale? Oh, he hears his brat wailing and wakes up so all the Cybermen explode." Or possibly "hey, what if we did a story where hearing a baby cry made Cybermen explode, regardless of what else happens?" Fuck off.

No, seriously, fuck off. There have been bad endings to bad episodes, and bad endings to good episodes, but that was the biggest gap between the goodness of an episode and shittiness of an ending that I've seen in a long time....

Ah, there we go. That's exactly how I felt but I couldn't figure out how to express. Well said, Lonemagpie.

Hey, a 2nd Doctor reference.... I guess neither like redecorating...

I loved that little tidbit as well.

There really hasn't been a really decent standalone Cybermen story since 1981's Earthshock IMO...

It's not a view held by just about anyone else, but I'm quite fond of Silver Nemesis. Attack's alright as well, though not as good as Earthshock.

Don't take this the wrong way, Bones, but I have to say I find it rather amusing that you heavily criticize a lot of RTD- and Moffat-era episodes that I tend to think are at least good if not great, but you like Silver Nemesis! Ugh, even I don't like that serial. Bleah.

the baby joke never got old

The baby joke is great. Stormaggeddon.

 

[propita]

Even quoting "Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines" song, when we first see him flying the toy plane in the shop.

I love Craig and glad to see he's got confidence and he's definitely a companion. The Amy/Rory cameo with petrichor was great. And "Stormy" is a great name.

What with this and the Doctor's destruction of the cyber legion in AGMGTW, they've taken some good hits.

 

[Jochk]

Just want to add my 2 cents;

I thought that this episode was classic Matt Smith Doctor, he was just so eccentric and wild but still very serious when he needed to be.

The Cybermen in this episode I believed pulled away from the overall plot of the episode. It could have just as well been another random alien race that lived in the universe. I fell that if the antagonist was just the clooborbals from dradisman #5 it would have been better. Though because the use of a emotionless enemy such as the Cybermen did lead to that lovely and awkward scene with Craig having his reaction to "stormy's" crying scientifically explained by The Doctor.

Also, Craig is one of my favorite characters the show has had, and if I had it my way he would be the next companion, I would love to see a male companion.

When he was given the cowboy hat I was almost disappointed that he didn't say his clever "Its a __________, I wear a ____________ now, _____________'s are cool" I thought that would have helped to bring the April 22nd 2011 is when The Doctor will die 360 degrees.

Oh, one last thing is that the use of The Doctors "ability" to speak baby is so much fun, Matt Smith uses it so well in the way he is extremely eccentric about all things related to the children of the show.

 

[Checkmate]

I enjoyed the episode. Especially all the "lines" that Stormageddon had, as well as the shh gag. The resolution was as handwaved as most resolutions in Doctor Who are, so I don't know why people are ranting on about that. At least here it was pretty touching and inspiring, as -- speaking from firsthand experience -- the instinct to protect your child is pretty damn strong.

The only thing I found weak was the "shocking reveal" that River was the Astronaut. That was kind of obvious from the very beginning of the season.

 

[Kaziarl]

I have to say, my favorite line was from when the Cyber-Rat was in the house. The doctor says it's shielded from something or other (Didn't quite catch it) then says "Don't worry, I have an app for that."

 

[intrinsical]

Its about pacing, people, or think of it as the lull before the storm.

DS9 did it too. One episode before the beginning of the Dominon War, Jake Sisko and Nog were trying to get a baseball card for his dad.

 

[Photoman15]

plus Craig and Daisy need time to get married, buy a house, have a baby, and have it grow to about a year old. I'd tentatively guesstimate "Closing Time" to take place circa 2014.

Just as a point of notice (and it has no bearing on the timeline you speak of), Craig and Sophie aren't married. When Craig was telling the saleswoman "we don't need a piece of paper etc....", he didn't know she thought he and the Doctor were "partners". He was referring to Sophie.


(fixed the name, wasn't thinking when I quoted)

 

[Mitty]

^Uh, Sophie?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Its about pacing, people, or think of it as the lull before the storm.

DS9 did it too. One episode before the beginning of the Dominon War, Jake Sisko and Nog were trying to get a baseball card for his dad.

I'm all for a calm before the storm episode (I'm in the minority who loves the aforementioned baseball card episode), but falling back on that alone doesn't necessarily make "Closing Time" a good episode.

 

[Skellington]

The inevitable IO9 review of the episode is up. As usual, some good points are made.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Wow, and with one line, the show completely wipes out all those DW/Star Trek crossovers written over the years...

Didn't The Empty Child already do that?

Besides, all it means is there's something in the DW-verse called Star Trek. Doesn't mean it's the *same* Star Trek...

 

[Lonemagpie]

Its about pacing, people, or think of it as the lull before the storm.

DS9 did it too. One episode before the beginning of the Dominon War, Jake Sisko and Nog were trying to get a baseball card for his dad.

Yeah, but that ending worked!

 

[Lonemagpie]

Coming back to the overall season/arc - I think another part of the problem is that making the Doctor's death a fixed point in time and going on about how that's definitely when it happens no matter what - aside from the issue that it'll obviously get worked around (if when Smith leaves and a 12th Doctor is cast, at the very latest), and so is a cheat to start with - is that it means that for this season there's been no threat to the Doctor. Cos we know where and when he dies, at least until they somehow work around it in the finale. So we've had a whole season where we know nothing will happen to him- which kind of fucks up the poisoning in LKH, and so on.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Yes, the ending was lame and cliché, but I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that most of those people who didn't like it... aren't parents.

<runs for cover. Fast.>

Some of us have had the experience and still hate the ending...

 

[Skellington]

Wow, and with one line, the show completely wipes out all those DW/Star Trek crossovers written over the years...

Didn't The Empty Child already do that?

There's also The Impossible Astronaut, where the hapless Joy/Joyce mentions it by name.

On a side note, those references don't provide any real conflict with past or prospective crossovers, given that both shows allow for alternate universes etc. Doctor Who can get around pretty much anything by saying "He changed time" and Star Trek can get around anything by saying "Q did it".

 

[Mitty]

I'm not sure what all the complaining is about. Yep the resolution of saving Craig was a bit cheesy, but the rest of it I quite enjoyed. A simple little story in many ways, with a lot of nice moments. Agreed, the Stormageddon thing was just hilarious and never got old. The Amy and Rory cameo was just brilliant, and I loved the Petrichor thing.

What I loved most though was that Smith played him just differently enough that you really thought this was later in his life. I'm going to be annoyed if we find out this is a ganger clone or duplicate or something (regardless of what Canton said in TIA).

The main thing that I'm worried about is how are they going to explain why The Silence want him dead. At the moment there really seems to be no motivation at all.

The other thing that I can't believe (unless I've missed it) am I the only one who spotted the Dalek in the preview of next week?

 

[Lonemagpie]

Oh, and either there are two Amys (well, actually two Ganger Amys!) and Rorys, or there was a massive goof last night - it's the day before the Doctor dies, right? ("It's tomorrow") It must have taken at least a day for Amy and Rory to get tickets and fly to the US after getting their envelopes, so there's no way they could be shopping in Colchester that day.

(and since this would mean Amy was the Petrichor ad girl before TIA, why didn't anyone ask for her autograph in the other present-day bits?)

 

[JoeZhang]

Oh, and either there are two Amys (well, actually two Ganger Amys!) and Rorys, or there was a massive goof last night - it's the day before the Doctor dies, right? ("It's tomorrow") It must have taken at least a day for Amy and Rory to get tickets and fly to the US after getting their envelopes, so there's no way they could be shopping in Colchester that day.

(and since this would mean Amy was the Petrichor ad girl before TIA, why didn't anyone ask for her autograph in the other present-day bits?)

Doesn't he mean in his personal timeline? - that is to say, he is going to go to that date and faces his death, not that it is literally tomorrow and the episode is set on the day before on em.. thingy 2012.