Georgia might have executed an innocent man

[CorporalClegg]

Any execution seems barbaric to me.

Me too.

The sad truth is people in the old west (for example) didn't attend hangings to see justice; they attended hangings so they could watch people swing.

The mentality is clearly rampant in modern [American] society.

When guys like Perry boast (with obvious pride) about signing the executions of 234 people and he's cheered for it, I die a little inside.

 

[Dream]

Or, kindda like Janeway in a nutshell. [chuckle]

BITCH killed Tuvix.

 

[Paradon]

Any execution seems barbaric to me.

Me too.

The sad truth is people in the old west (for example) didn't attend hangings to see justice; they attended hangings so they could watch people swing.

The mentality is clearly rampant in modern [American] society.

When guys like Perry boast (with obvious pride) about signing the executions of 234 people and he's cheered for it, I die a little inside.

If somebody attacked you, for example raping you, or maybe he attack your mother, some people pretend like it didn't happened and wishing every worst criminal, people that rape and kill children or rape and torture someone before they died, in the world would met their end. But the truth is: they got you. In Buddhism they teach you to accept your fear...it's OK to be vulnerable...you're really aren't in control and just let it go. Control is only an illusion. You'll feel a lot better afterward.

I think that's the problem with a lot of people. They think life should turn out the way they want, but in life you can't always get what you want and life is suffering. People expectation for the perfect world is what causing the suffering.

 

[CorporalClegg]

 

[Davros]

I just had this discussion, and I'm not sure: Does anyone think his skin color and social status mattered in this?

I have no doubt at all that it did.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

The death penalty is disproportionately applied to minorities, with minorities accounting for about half of all those who have been or are awaiting execution.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Well, if you had someone in your family that was raped, tortured and killed, then you understand why some people are for the death penalty. But I think if we learn to forgive the world would be a better place...

I have been raped -- my assailant just pled guilty and is awaiting sentencing -- and I still can't justify the death penalty.

The only possible exception might be an inmate who is already in very high security (state-of-the-art, high tech prison) and kills a correctional officer. I have to admit, I'm not sure what to do about that one.

 

[Trekker4747]

Sad

I don't agree with AL Sharpton on much, but on this point he is right.No one should be executed unless there is solid evidence linking him/her to the crime.

As I've grown older and increasingly more liberal I've come to depart more and more from the idea of the DP. There's still "rootes" of it there where I think the most extreme circumstances I think it's called for, but I don't think we should should make the level of evidence decide the severity of the punishment.

We should live in a guilty/not guilty society not a not guilty/guilty/guiltier society.

If the evidence is not strong enough to convict someone to the DP then it shouldn't be strong enough to convict them to prison.

Overall, I think the death penalty should be done away with. Completely. I think it has served its purpose, whatever that was, and that in this day and age it's really not needed or wanted. I say again that I do not really like saying this as I do feel there some people we just need to do away with who are not worthy of life.

But I think on the long run doing away with the DP is better for society on the whole.

Think again. Texas executed a man who was most likely innocent, and no one gives a fuck.

Just read through that. More evidence than anything else that Texas is fucked up.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Think again. Texas executed a man who was most likely innocent, and no one gives a fuck.

On the contrary, a lot of people give a fuck, gave a fuck, and will continue to give a fuck.

Reading that story (and the summary on Wikipedia) turns my stomach.

I hope Rick Perry (for one) rots in hell.

 

[Trekker4747]

Think again. Texas executed a man who was most likely innocent, and no one gives a fuck.

On the contrary, a lot of people give a fuck, gave a fuck, and will continue to give a fuck.

Reading that story (and the summary on Wikipedia) turns my stomach.

I hope Rick Perry (for one) rots in hell.

Seems like little gave a fuck considering this is the first I've heard of the story. (Nice use of the humorous cartoons in the body of a story about the death of a potentially innocent man by a state, stay classy New Yorker.)

Reading that story really can turn ones stomach. Yeah, I think I'm fully over in the "anti-DP" category now, wasn't long ago I was for it in extreme circumstances. I've now realized the error of those thoughts and am against the DP.

Texas is the worst state in how proud they are in having killed so many people including people of low mental ability and potentially innocent people. Also through that story it seems the Public Defenders aren't very good at doing their jobs, the Prosecutors are over ambitious to get their conviction and the crime-scene investigators are under-trained, eager to pin it on whoever they can as soon as they can and are generally incompetent.

Can the South try and secede again? We won't stop them this time.

 

[clint g]

It's a shame that they didn't stop this execution. I'm against the death penalty for all cases, even where it's a 100% certainty, like in my country the mass murderer terrorist Breivik, but if you're going to have it, then atleast reserve it for cases where there's no doubt

Seven of nine witnesses against Mr. Davis recanted after trial. Six said the police threatened them if they did not identify Mr. Davis. The man who first told the police that Mr. Davis was the shooter later confessed to the crime. There are other reasons to doubt Mr. Davis’s guilt: There was no physical evidence linking him to the crime introduced at trial, and new ballistics evidence broke the link between him and a previous shooting that provided the motive for his conviction. - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/opinion/a-grievous-wrong-on-georgias-death-row.html?_r=4&hp

A damn shame...

This makes me wan't to vomit. It's bad enough we have the death penalty, but as mentioned earlier in the thread if you're GOING to do it at least get it fucking right. If even ONE witness recants that should cast enough doubt that the guy should be taken off death row.

Oh and what's with this pussy shit of having a regular joes throwing the switch to execute these people? The Judge passed the sentence, the Judge should have decency to be in the room at kill him with his own hands.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Think again. Texas executed a man who was most likely innocent, and no one gives a fuck.

On the contrary, a lot of people give a fuck, gave a fuck, and will continue to give a fuck.

Reading that story (and the summary on Wikipedia) turns my stomach.

I hope Rick Perry (for one) rots in hell.

Seems like little gave a fuck considering this is the first I've heard of the story. (Nice use of the humorous cartoons in the body of a story about the death of a potentially innocent man by a state, stay classy New Yorker.)

Reading that story really can turn ones stomach. Yeah, I think I'm fully over in the "anti-DP" category now, wasn't long ago I was for it in extreme circumstances. I've now realized the error of those thoughts and am against the DP.

Texas is the worst state in how proud they are in having killed so many people including people of low mental ability and potentially innocent people. Also through that story it seems the Public Defenders aren't very good at doing their jobs, the Prosecutors are over ambitious to get their conviction and the crime-scene investigators are under-trained, eager to pin it on whoever they can as soon as they can and are generally incompetent.

Can the South try and secede again? We won't stop them this time.

Well, he WAS executed seven years ago. This isn't exactly a fresh story.

The only reason we're talking about Troy Davis now is because, well, it's current news.

 

[Trekker4747]

Even seven years ago I don't recall this story getting much attention.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

It's only a story now because it can be used to smear Perry, not because anyone's seriously using it to discredit capital punishment.

 

[bigdaddy]

It wasn't the first time and it wont be the last. Sadly this case will not change anything either.

We have 3,000+ people on death row, some whose only crime was being dark skinned.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

That's what the appeals are for, aren't it? If they did find any reasonable doubt, he would have been clear already. Unless the court is very corrupted, which I seriously doubt. I respect most officers of the laws; they're take their jobs very seriously to put pervs behind bars to protect people like us. Why didn't they make this an issue a long time ago...and just now making a big bang?

Can somebody enlighten me on this issue? I haven't been following it. I just found out today.

The Jury trial is nearly absolute. The jury determines guilt or innocence. No one wants to question it. It takes quite a lot to overturn this. In this case, iirc, 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted their testimony. But the Judge at the hearing only found some of those who recanted to be credible with their recantations. I guess he believed that others were telling the truth then and were lying now with their recantations. I can't remember how many that leaves, but it would be closer to three or four who recanted. So the Judges simply said that some jury could possibly have concluded there would be guilt with the remaining witnesses who didn't recant. The standard at this point isn't whether the Judges at the hearing believe a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt but whether some non-insane jury could have believed this.

The appeals process is primarily about whether you had a fair trial, not whether you are innocent. You could be innocent but had a fair trial and there's little that can be done.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I contend that it is logically impossible to be innocent and still be found guilty by a "fair" trial.

What can be less fair than convicting an innocent person?

It's only a story now because it can be used to smear Perry, not because anyone's seriously using it to discredit capital punishment.

Wait, are you talking about Cameron Todd Willingham? If so, you just brought him up.

If you're talking about Troy Davis, what does he have to do with Rick Perry? Troy Davis was in Georgia, not Texas.

 

[SPOCKED]

Oh and what's with this pussy shit of having a regular joes throwing the switch to execute these people? The Judge passed the sentence, the Judge should have decency to be in the room at kill him with his own hands.

Brings new meaning to HERE COME DA JUDGE!!

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I contend that it is logically impossible to be innocent and still be found guilty by a "fair" trial.

What can be less fair than convicting an innocent person?

I sympathize, but it means procedural fairness. Basically, the trial was by the book. No evidence or arguments were made or introduced that weren't allowed. The Judge correctly told the jury what the law was. In other words, the jury heard the right thing and then went and made their decision themselves. If they said they felt firmly convinced, there's not much a Judge will do.

Now if witnesses perjured themselves on the stand, that's something to consider. But the Judge making the ruling said he did not believe most of the witnesses who said they did this (I guess he believed they were lying to him now, rather than to the Court the previous time). In addition, he said it was harmless error. Basically, there was plenty of other evidence a jury could have relied upon even if these people were not allowed to testify and it wasn't his place to presume they relied only on those witnesses. So he didn't think this was enough to overturn things.

Personally, if any witness recants, that casts considerable doubt on the jury's verdict. If seven recant, that casts even more doubt. I can't say there's a fair trial in these circumstances, but Judges in death penalty states tend to disagree.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

It's only a story now because it can be used to smear Perry, not because anyone's seriously using it to discredit capital punishment.

Wait, are you talking about Cameron Todd Willingham? If so, you just brought him up.

I know I brought him up--but it was brought to my attention as an attack on Perry, not necessarily as an example of why the death penalty is wrong. I think it is an example of why executing people is wrong, but if it weren't for Perry running for President, most people wouldn't even know about it, nor care. That's what I was talking about.