Need help putting my TNG Novel together

[Greg Cox]

Jaime Costas on maternity leave seems overwhelmed as it is. .

Again, Jaime Costas left Pocket Books nearly a year ago. She's not on maternity leave or "overwhelmed." She's moved on and has nothing to do with STAR TREK anymore.

She was on a maternity leave at one point, but she ultimately decided not to come back to Pocket. She's been out of the picture for some time now.

 

[xortex]

Who would be better to decide what is great or not than you guys? The overwhelmers themselves. Set up shop. Lone magpie too for some English perspective on this thing.

 

[Christopher]

I think there should be a small team there at S and S of these very talented writers/thinkers genius experts like Christopher, Dayton, etc. to decide on and develop story content working with select writer/thinkers with lets say not so much experience or expertise, that they're interested in, lower level/tier writers/thinkers with excellent ideas that may not have a chance otherwise.

That doesn't even really make sense. The basic ideas aren't the hard part. Any idea that one author has, other authors probably have too. What makes the story is the execution, the way the idea is developed and realized, and that's what different writers bring to the table -- their own approach, their own voice and style shaped by their years of practice and training.

And speaking from my own experience as a novice writer, let me tell you that the ideas that novice or amateur authors may think are excellent will more likely than not be rather elementary and obvious. When I was starting out, I thought I was coming up with really great ideas for stories, but when I looked back on them years later with more experience, I realized they were half-formed, superficial, lacking in character resonance, too self-indulgent to appeal to a wider audience, things like that. Even now, with nearly two decades' more experience, I'm still not great at telling if my ideas are good enough.

So the notion held by many amateur authors that they're in possession of these great, innovative ideas that professional authors would benefit from hearing -- most of the time, that's just naive. That's one reason why going through years of rejections is so important to developing your skill as a writer -- because it teaches you to tell the difference between a weak idea and a strong idea. It's also valuable to try writers' workshops or share your work with trusted beta readers; feedback is important to learning what ideas and approaches will appeal to others instead of just yourself. But that's not a process that we novelists can spare the time to hold your hand for. We have to focus on separating out our own good ideas from our bad ones.

Now, someone made an analogy to the Trek TV shows and how some of the writers came in with little prior experience. But that's different because modern TV writing is an ensemble process. If a freelancer or intern comes up with a good idea for a story, the outline will then be broken by the entire writing staff and the script might not even be assigned to the same person who came up with the idea. And even the originator of the idea does get the first-draft script assignment, it will still be revised by the rest of the staff and the showrunner will do the final draft. So there's a mechanism in place for an inexperienced writer with a good idea to get help in turning it into a better script. (Keep in mind, though, that only about one in a thousand people who submitted spec scripts to TNG, DS9, and VGR got invited to pitch, and maybe only one in ten thousand pitches got bought. A story like Ron Moore's is extraordinarily rare.)

But prose writing doesn't work that way. It's not a staff system, not a collaboration. You can't submit an idea and have a whole team of more experienced writers flesh it out for you. You have to do it all yourself. You're under the guidance of an editor whose job is to help you bring out the best in your story, to point out its weaknesses and suggest improvements, but the responsibility for doing the work is entirely yours (unless you're specifically working as part of a team, like Ward & Dilmore or the Reeves-Stevenses, but that's the kind of partnership you have to establish beforehand).

 

[Therin of Andor]

Who would be better to decide what is great or not than you guys? The overwhelmers themselves. Set up shop. Lone magpie too for some English perspective on this thing.

What are you smoking?

Pocket/Gallery Books holds the exclusive license to publish ST fiction and their editorial team has several experienced members who are responsible for licensed tie-ins. They are not necessarily overwhelmed. And all proposals and completed manuscripts must meet with CBS approval. There are only so many slots each year for ST novels - and plenty of experienced authors pitching: some hits, some misses.

"Set up shop"? To do what? Attempt to take the exclusive license off Pocket/Gallery?

 

[xortex]

Well I'm suggesting a small coterie staff mechanism of 'showrunners' maybe a small table at S & S say three or four of you guys. How do the comic books do it? Isn't there a staff? and someone makes the decisions? Yea I definately see now that you're right.. woops.

I think Ed Schlesinger would rather be pregnant. He must be thrilled by the extra workload. Isn't this what he got into the business for? The lovefest? Does he own a whip? GRR.. The out of pocket expense wouldn't costos alot. Would it? Dead slushpile Schlesinger. That's it. I'll be back in three weeks.

 

[Relayer1]

So the notion held by many amateur authors that they're in possession of these great, innovative ideas that professional authors would benefit from hearing -- most of the time, that's just naive. That's one reason why going through years of rejections is so important to developing your skill as a writer -- because it teaches you to tell the difference between a weak idea and a strong idea...

...Now, someone made an analogy to the Trek TV shows and how some of the writers came in with little prior experience. But that's different because modern TV writing is an ensemble process. If a freelancer or intern comes up with a good idea for a story, the outline will then be broken by the entire writing staff and the script might not even be assigned to the same person who came up with the idea...

...But prose writing doesn't work that way. It's not a staff system, not a collaboration. You can't submit an idea and have a whole team of more experienced writers flesh it out for you. You have to do it all yourself.

It's not the publishers job to nursemaid or train up new writers, attractive though the idea may be.

The TV model where there is a small chance of a truly great idea being picked up and developed REGARDLESS of where it came from does have some merit. There could be some ideas out there that would be worth considering.

However, I can't really see why a skilled and working pro author would want to slave away crafting a fully formed novel from someone elses story when they could be producing their own work.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think Ed Schlesinger would rather be pregnant. He must be thrilled by the extra workload.

Last time I checked out the Pocket/Gallery pages, it stated that Ed Schlesinger and several other Pocket/Gallery editors had experience with licensed tie-ins. Jen Heddle was still around, and she's certainly worked on ST in the past. It has not been stated that Ed is the only current Pocket/Gallery editor handling pitches for ST novels since Jaime Costos departed. At one point, sure, there was Marco and Margaret both working on ST, with Ed editing Peter David, and KRAD doing freelance on SCE. But they were producing a lot of ST titles at the time. Pocket hadn't done much non-novel stuff in ages, which is what probably freed Margaret up to do novels alongside Marco. She used to be the non fiction expert.

I don't get why you think is Ed's is an "extra workload". If he's the only editor working on ST, he's not necessarily only ever working on ST. Marco used to edit the superhero novels at the same time as he edited ST.

Dead slushpile Schlesinger.

Since all manuscripts on the ST slushpile have to be sent in by recognised literary agents, let's hope the slushpile is of higher average quality than other publishers with a more open policy.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I can't really see why a skilled and working pro author would want to slave away crafting a fully formed novel from someone elses story when they could be producing their own work.

Ask a ghost writer. For many pro authors, ghost writing can keep the wolf from the door while they await word on their own project proposals.

 

[Greg Cox]

Jen Heddle was still around, and she's certainly worked on ST in the past. .

FYI: Jen Heddle has recently moved on to greener pastures.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Jen Heddle was still around, and she's certainly worked on ST in the past. .

FYI: Jen Heddle has recently moved on to greener pastures.

Good luck to her. I saw her Twitter about her new digs.

Is Ed the only one left on tie-ins?

 

[Greg Cox]

Not necessarily. I recently did a Young Adult tie-in, based on Riese: Kingdom Falling, for another editor at S&S.

And for those who don't know, Jen Heddle is now editing STAR WARS books for Lucasfilm. (I wasn't sure if that was public knowledge yet, but I guess the word is out.)

 

[Jedi_Master]

Asides from that, where submitting novels is concerned, it seems like a very secretive and overly complicated process that not many people are willing to explain.

Not at all. Several people in this thread have already explained it. And it's not that different from getting a job in any other profession -- namely, first you have to go through the audition/interview process and prove you have what it takes. And in order to have what it takes, you have to get enough hard work and experience under your belt to develop the skill. It only seems "overly complicated" if you start off with the totally false assumption that you can go from interested amateur to successful novelist overnight. It takes most writers years of writing, submitting, being rejected, and learning from the rejections to develop a high enough skill level to be competitive with all the other experienced professionals who are competing for a limited number of slots. That's why it's not easy -- not because there's some secret conspiracy to exclude people from getting in the door, but because, as with any other professional discipline, you have to compete to get in the door and you have to earn that access through talent, discipline, and hard work.

So how does an unpublished author get their foot in the door, where Star Trek is concerned?

They probably don't, for the same reason someone with no professional architectural experience is unlikely to be hired to design a skyscraper. This isn't a hobby for amateurs. This isn't fanfiction. It's a professional discipline and you're competing with experienced, professional authors. Like Therin said, the best way to have a shot at becoming a Star Trek writer is simply to become a writer, period -- to write your own original fiction, submit it, get it rejected, learn from the rejections, repeat several dozen times until you finally get good enough to sell something, then repeat more and more until you sell enough to get a reputation or an agent, and then you can give it a try.

Excellent advice. As with anything in life, the more effort and work you put in to something, the more you generally get out of it. No one expects to be a success overnight. In today's world you have to WORK at being a success, and it is nice to see several writers comments confirm that the world of novels is no different.

 

[Greg Cox]

Marco used to edit the superhero novels at the same time as he edited ST.
.

So did Ed. He edited my FF and Ghost Rider novels, as well as various other non-Trek projects. Just like Margaret edited the 4400 books.

I'm not sure anyone's ever handled STAR TREK exclusively.

 

[MichaelS]

And for those who don't know, Jen Heddle is now editing STAR WARS books for Lucasfilm. (I wasn't sure if that was public knowledge yet, but I guess the word is out.)

The word is indeed out. There's a short note in the new Locus, which I got today. (Publishing news, pg. 9)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Is Ed the only one left on tie-ins?

http://imprints.simonandschuster.biz/gallery

The previous time I read this page there was a comment that any of the editors could take any pitches. About three listed licensed media tie-ins as an "area of interest". Today Jen Heddle is still listed, and she and Ed are the only two mentioning media tie-ins as an "interest". Sounds like the editors can jump around projects as the situation requires.

 

[Greg Cox]

Like Therin said, editors can jump around, depending.

Again, I can't speak for Pocket specifically, but editorial departments are not that strictly defined. Editors tend to have their specialties, but that doesn't mean they can't branch out now and then if a special project strikes their fancy. Or gets dumped in their laps.

("Congratulations, Greg. You're editing Gargantua.")

I mostly handle Richard Matheson at Tor, but there's no rule that says I couldn't acquire a non-fiction book on Ukrainian dog-training . . . as long as I could convince Tom Doherty that it would sell.

Some editors do lots of tie-ins. Some dabble once and awhile. Some prefer to work on other things. It's not an exact science.

 

[Mr Silver]

I'm interested in knowing how the intellectual property legalities work. Does an author retain copyright of original characters, etc?

I don't expect you to answer this question, but I'll try asking anyway. What percentage of royalties does the author usually recieve and how are the royalties divided up between the author, publisher, etc?

 

[Christopher]

I mostly handle Richard Matheson at Tor, but there's no rule that says I couldn't acquire a non-fiction book on Ukrainian dog-training . . . as long as I could convince Tom Doherty that it would sell.

Or a first original novel by that guy who wrote The Buried Age and Ex Machina...

I'm interested in knowing how the intellectual property legalities work. Does an author retain copyright of original characters, etc?

Nope. If you write for Star Trek, everything you come up with is the property of CBS. If you look at that Gallery Books editor listing that Therin linked to above, it says that among the authors Ed Schlesinger handles is "CBS Consumer Products." That's because from a legal standpoint, CBS is the author of all Star Trek works, in the sense that they own all the rights to ST that an author would hold to one's original work.

The system in British TV is more like what you're suggesting. For instance, freelance writers who write for Doctor Who retain the rights to the characters and species they create. Terry Nation owned (and his estate still owns) the Daleks, which is why there were a couple of years-long gaps with no Dalek stories and why the '90s tie-in novels couldn't tell Dalek stories -- because there were periods when Nation refused the BBC or Virgin Books permission to use them.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Like Therin said, editors can jump around, depending.

Again, I can't speak for Pocket specifically, but editorial departments are not that strictly defined. Editors tend to have their specialties, but that doesn't mean they can't branch out now and then if a special project strikes their fancy. Or gets dumped in their laps.

("Congratulations, Greg. You're editing Gargantua.")

I mostly handle Richard Matheson at Tor, but there's no rule that says I couldn't acquire a non-fiction book on Ukrainian dog-training . . . as long as I could convince Tom Doherty that it would sell.

Some editors do lots of tie-ins. Some dabble once and awhile. Some prefer to work on other things. It's not an exact science.

Thanks for the insight. Is it the dream of authors to become editors - similar to how every actor says 'well I what I really want to do is direct"?

 

[Mr Silver]

Nope. If you write for Star Trek, everything you come up with is the property of CBS. If you look at that Gallery Books editor listing that Therin linked to above, it says that among the authors Ed Schlesinger handles is "CBS Consumer Products." That's because from a legal standpoint, CBS is the author of all Star Trek works, in the sense that they own all the rights to ST that an author would hold to one's original work.

So if another author decided to kill off some characters, including one that you had created (T'ryssa Chen for example, although you've stated that a friend was just as responsible for her creation as you were), then they could just do that if CBS were ok with it and you wouldn't have any say?