The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[bullethead]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

If I want stuff tampered with, I buy the Star Wars Special Edition.

Hilarious...tell me where they changed the TOS stories then maybe you'd have a case...

RAMA

Why, where did they change the stories in the SW SE?

Greedo shooting first changes how the audience perceives Han Solo. It makes him less of a rogue and more of a regular protagonist.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Ugh. Let's not get into the Star Wars stuff here, please. We've got like fifty threads about it down in SF&F; go argue about it there.

 

[RAMA]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Someone posted this over at trekmovie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJtE8afwJEg

http://trekmovie.com/2011/09/14/new-details-on-tng-blu-ray-project/#3888412

Seam carving is a way to seamlessly make 4:3 look like 16:9 with little or no noticeable distortion.

 

[Destructor]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I don't know if making 4:3 image to 16:9 is worth it. The didn't do it for TOS, why do it for TNG? It looks awful for the HD Friends/Seinfeld 'explosions'. (I'm assuming TNG wasn't show in 16:9, like B5 was).

 

[lindajamison76]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Good post. I appreciate it!

 

[Squiggy]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I don't know if making 4:3 image to 16:9 is worth it. The didn't do it for TOS, why do it for TNG? It looks awful for the HD Friends/Seinfeld 'explosions'. (I'm assuming TNG wasn't show in 16:9, like B5 was).

I made these a while back to show how cropping wouldn't negatively impact the show.

Here's the originally framed 4:3 shot

And the HDified 16:9

Another shot, old school:

And new hotness:

The "meat" of the action has been, and will always be in the center section of the screen. Losing the background on top and the foreground on the bottom wouldn't really negatively impact the plot, feel, or "director's vision".

Plus, lot of people just like having the entirety of their TV that they paid a lot of money for filled with exciting colors and moving images. Double if they paid hundreds of dollars for the full TNG-HD box set.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I like the cropped shots better. But there are some cases where it wouldn't work or where they would have to build artificial pans into the scenes.

 

[AviTrek]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Squiggy, there are easy shots and there are hard shots. I'm sure a lot of the shots are easy to crop. The problem is, you need to crop every shot of every episode. All it takes is one or two shot that are too difficult to crop and it ruins the entire episode.

If you check this thread, I submitted a couple trickier shots. Someone tried to make them 16x9, but the results were noticeably crowded and worse than the original.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

True, it wouldn't work for 100% of the shots in the series. I think most of the shots were static. It's not like Sorkin and West Wing where you had long walk and talks but even those other shots in TNG were left-right movement/pans. Since you're not cutting out anything on the left or right (just the top and bottom) then it should be alright for the most part.

If that makes any sense. Hell if I know. I'm a sound guy.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Squiggy, there are easy shots and there are hard shots. I'm sure a lot of the shots are easy to crop. The problem is, you need to crop every shot of every episode.

Well, if they have to scan the film reels, they have to redo the cropping for every shot anyway.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Squiggy, there are easy shots and there are hard shots. I'm sure a lot of the shots are easy to crop. The problem is, you need to crop every shot of every episode. All it takes is one or two shot that are too difficult to crop and it ruins the entire episode.

If you check this thread, I submitted a couple trickier shots. Someone tried to make them 16x9, but the results were noticeably crowded and worse than the original.

Actually, that's subjective (as anything dealing with this would be), but I think the first attempt shot is pretty good. Here's my go at it:

If they screw this up with widescreen, my enthusiasm for this project goes from 110% to 0%.

My enthusiasm would go from 20% to 80% if it is a well done widescreen conversion.

If people want to watch it in "widescreen" they can hit the crop button on their remote, instead of chopping off part of the picture permanently.

If it can be done well, it will be at the hands of professionals and not your television. The part of the picture that gets cropped is unlikely to have anything more interesting going on than the additional image on the sides has.

---------------

I challenge anyone claiming that a widescreen crop could be done, to produce a decent looking crop of the following two fairly standard shots.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s5/5x18/causeandeffect289.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s5/5x18/causeandeffect380.jpg

I'll take your second one first. Riker was speaking therefore he was the center of attention:

As for your first one, it depends on who's currently talking...if Riker or Worf then this:

If Picard or Troi then this:

If all for are having a go at it then you're going to either use the Riker/Worf framing or do a vertical P&S.

 

[TheSeeker]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Someone posted this over at trekmovie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJtE8afwJEg

http://trekmovie.com/2011/09/14/new-details-on-tng-blu-ray-project/#3888412

Seam carving is a way to seamlessly make 4:3 look like 16:9 with little or no noticeable distortion.

Very interesting. It seems a bit like PhotoShop's content aware scaling.

One thing I had always wondered was if it was possible to use frames that come before and after as a reference for recontructing a 4:3 shot into 16:9 without losing or distorting the original. It seems like seam carving might be what I was thinking about.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Someone posted this over at trekmovie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJtE8afwJEg

http://trekmovie.com/2011/09/14/new-details-on-tng-blu-ray-project/#3888412

Seam carving is a way to seamlessly make 4:3 look like 16:9 with little or no noticeable distortion.

Very interesting. It seems a bit like PhotoShop's content aware scaling.

One thing I had always wondered was if it was possible to use frames that come before and after as a reference for recontructing a 4:3 shot into 16:9 without losing or distorting the original. It seems like seam carving might be what I was thinking about.

Theoretically possible. Depends on the lens.

 

[Start Wreck]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

No cropping, please. If I'm paying for the whole series, I don't want 30% of it missing, thanks!
If you want your screen filled for whatever bizarre reason, then use the zoom function on it, rather than vandalising the show for everyone else.

Well, if they have to scan the film reels, they have to redo the cropping for every shot anyway.

"Redoing" the cropping isn't what takes time or effort. That would be automated. As I understand it, the show was filmed 4:3 with safe zones. They'll simply match the original crop.

Creatively "reframing" the whole show for 16:9 would take time (and therefore money), and would probably look terrible anyway.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

No cropping, please. If I'm paying for the whole series, I don't want 30% of it missing, thanks!

Do you feel the same way when you buy a movie and aren't getting the whole thing?

 

[Start Wreck]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Do you feel the same way when you buy a movie and aren't getting the whole thing?

I don't think I ever have, but I'm sure I would.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Do you feel the same way when you buy a movie and aren't getting the whole thing?

I don't think I ever have, but I'm sure I would.

Because you rarely are. Unless you're watching a movie letterboxed, you're not getting the entire thing. Even if you watch a movie in a fill 16:9 screen you're not getting the entire movie as movies are 1.85:1. (or 5.55:3 or 16.65:9)

 

[TheSeeker]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I watch all movies in their original aspect ratio if possible..

 

[RAMA]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I don't know if making 4:3 image to 16:9 is worth it. The didn't do it for TOS, why do it for TNG? It looks awful for the HD Friends/Seinfeld 'explosions'. (I'm assuming TNG wasn't show in 16:9, like B5 was).

I made these a while back to show how cropping wouldn't negatively impact the show.

Here's the originally framed 4:3 shot

And the HDified 16:9

Another shot, old school:

And new hotness:

The "meat" of the action has been, and will always be in the center section of the screen. Losing the background on top and the foreground on the bottom wouldn't really negatively impact the plot, feel, or "director's vision".

Plus, lot of people just like having the entirety of their TV that they paid a lot of money for filled with exciting colors and moving images. Double if they paid hundreds of dollars for the full TNG-HD box set.

These are quite good, and don't even include the overscan image, which adds a little information horizontally to what you ahve here.

 

[RAMA]

Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I watch all movies in their original aspect ratio if possible..

Generally his isn't a bad idea, I prefer letterboxed to pan and scan obviously, but the TATV example, Seinfeld (I prefer the 16:9), the examples from Ex Astris Scientia with only a minor 5.8% stretch, and the examples shown on this thread, really make feel satisfied with a 16:9 showing.

You also gain some image...

RAMA