They need to do way instain father. Who show his three kids... because his kids can't frigth back?
(Yes, this is referencing a meme.)
(Yes, this is referencing a meme.)
Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.
- Thread starter TheLobes
- Start date
TNG only began improving as Roddenberry stepped back; I believe he was most involved in the first season, the worst.
I'm surprised more people haven't noticed the abbreviation of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Indeed, who'd have thunk that a father shouldn't be allowed to show his own flesh and blood a film.
As for the topic at hand, I rather like all three of the Prequel films, they're a good popcorn no-brainer set of movies, not high art and even at the tender age of 15 I didn't expect it to be and still don't so I'll happily sit through them.
One really good thing to come out of Phantom Menace though are the rants from Simon Pegg, including this one from Spaced.
See, I've brought this up before, and I got a few folks to agree with me, the first season really isn't as bad as folks make it out to be. My wife and I have both watched TNG practically from the beginning, but last summer we started a whole series re-watch, and the first season was a lot better than we remembered, one thing I noticed was that it actually felt more like TOS episodes. I think that's the problem though, it's these new characters and settings, but with all the beats and rhythm of the old show.
To bring that over to Star Wars, TPM has a tone or feel to it that AOTC and ROTS simply never recaptured, and quite frankly it feels a little more like the original trilogy (being a near rehash of ANH will do that, but still....). If Lucas could have kept whatever that elusive tone was for the other two prequels, we could have had a much better PT.
For the record, I loved TPM when it first came out, then the internet told me to hate it so I did, then I came around to the ideas being expressed here: it's pretty much the best of the prequels.
That said however!! I still maintain all three prequels (and Return of the Jedi to an extent) would all benefit from another pass through the editing bay. Not really for additions*, but really just for flow and pacing. TPM especially has way too many instances of actors saying a line, and then looking over at the next actor who's supposed to speak, like Lucas was filming rehearsals or something.
*though some of the "birth of the Rebellion" scenes in 3 wouldn't hurt
To any desciple of Roddenberry, I say this: Wesley Crusher!
With or without Gene, trek did eventually go to the dogs, but, while I didnt like Voyager or Enterprise, I never got the impression that the people behind those shows ever gave up on them like George gave up on the prequels.
Anyone else think its become slightly cool to bash Return of the Jedi? Apart from the ewoks I wouldnt say its worse than the other movies in the original series, and at least the ewoks did something within the story. As I said in the opening post, the one thing about Star Wars that totally pisses me off is when Sith is ranked higher than Jedi.
With or without Gene, trek did eventually go to the dogs, but, while I didnt like Voyager or Enterprise, I never got the impression that the people behind those shows ever gave up on them like George gave up on the prequels.
Anyone else think its become slightly cool to bash Return of the Jedi? Apart from the ewoks I wouldnt say its worse than the other movies in the original series, and at least the ewoks did something within the story. As I said in the opening post, the one thing about Star Wars that totally pisses me off is when Sith is ranked higher than Jedi.
Saying Phantom Menace is the best Prequel is like saying Herpes is the best STD.
Should have reported him to Child Protective Services for child abuse.
Not sure if serious...
It at least wasn't captured lightning, although it did introduce potential.
It would have been hard to have a tone of hopeful heroism with the growing darkness of themes (a mysterious army to defeat secessionists, then all of RotS). Having Anakin be more likable and Padme less stiff in AotC and Obi-Wan somewhat less stoic in all the prequels would have helped.
Leia and Han received so much less development than in TESB, Leia being Luke's sister seemed a cheap way to end the triangle and I've long felt it wasn't very believable that Luke was so convinced that there was still good in Vader when he didn't really demonstrate any to him.
I was confused at first because AOTC is one of the worst of the 6 and given that the other 5 hardly rate a star between them?
TheLobes said:
It's a relatively recent development. It's only been cool to bash ROTJ since 1983.
This is how religions survive: by brainwashing the young.
Who's insecure, again?
Actually gonorrhea is the best. Ever since herpes shot first.
I saw the original Star Wars movie in the theater when I was 13 and have seen all the others in the theaters too. I never did understand the worship of the original trilogy or the hatred of the new trilogy. Don't get me wrong I do love Star Wars but I think they're all pretty even movies. There is a lot of good and some bad in each of them.
But I do agree with the OP that Phantom Menace is the best of the new trilogy.
But I do agree with the OP that Phantom Menace is the best of the new trilogy.
I never really felt that Han and Leia needed any more development, but I do agree that the whole thing about Leia being Lukes sister was very cheap. Its one of the those things that makes me doubt Lucas' honestly when he talks about how he had the whole story sorted out then spilit it up. Wookiepedia details how he thought of the whole midichlorians thing right at the start, and just couldnt find a place for it. Sure.
Out of interest, do you agree with Harrison Ford's idea for Han to sacrifice his life during ROTJ?
I actually liked that the good in Vader was never to strongly hinted at. I think it was very subtly developed throughout ESB and ROTJ, and I think anything more would have taken away from his eventual return to grace.
My personal rankings:
TPM: ***
AOTC: **
ROTS: ***
ANH: ***1/2
TESB: ****
ROTJ: ***1/2
I find 'good enough' in the other two prequels to consider them 'good', if you will. AOTC on the other hand has the singular distinction of being the only Star Wars movie I regard as patently average.
I completely concur with your assessment.
ROTJ has severe issues with pacing and coherency. Long before we encounter the ridiculous Ewoks (and yes, Teddy Bears defeating Imperial troops *is* ridiculous). But the opening sequences on Tatooine are highly entertaining and the "duel" between Luke and Vader (beginning with their verbal sparring just after Luke is captured) is absolutely perfect (recent additions of "Noooooooo" notwithstanding).
Still, to deny that ROTJ is a harbinger of the excess and lack of focus that defined the PT is to ignore what is in plain sight.
Oh, and AOTC is easily the worst film in the saga ... by a LOT.
Still, to deny that ROTJ is a harbinger of the excess and lack of focus that defined the PT is to ignore what is in plain sight.
Oh, and AOTC is easily the worst film in the saga ... by a LOT.
I like pretty much everything in the ROTJ, Ewoks included. Although when the Ewoks get involved, and manage to succeed, in the battle against the Storm Troopers things manage to fall apart.
But in ROTJ we've got the stuff at Jabba's place, the stuff around the Sarlacc pit, the speeder-bike chace, and everything on the Star Destroyer with Luke, The Emperor and Darth. Pretty much everything n ROTJ is good with exception of the moments of silliness with the Ewoks. (Namely them being of any use in the fight and their "worship" of 3PO.)
I'd rank the movies like this:
Episode I: 2 Stars
Episode II: 1 Star
Episode III: 1.5 Stars
Episode IV: 3.5 Stars
Episode V: 4 Stars
Episode VI: 3 Stars
But in ROTJ we've got the stuff at Jabba's place, the stuff around the Sarlacc pit, the speeder-bike chace, and everything on the Star Destroyer with Luke, The Emperor and Darth. Pretty much everything n ROTJ is good with exception of the moments of silliness with the Ewoks. (Namely them being of any use in the fight and their "worship" of 3PO.)
I'd rank the movies like this:
Episode I: 2 Stars
Episode II: 1 Star
Episode III: 1.5 Stars
Episode IV: 3.5 Stars
Episode V: 4 Stars
Episode VI: 3 Stars
Not much but it still comes off as underwhelming and overly light in comparison. Though he had matured, he could have lessened in the egotism and one-liners to mark more significant change.
It would probably be too much like TESB and make the quest to revive him feel somewhat wasted.
It's hard for a film to work as both its own entity and as a conclusion but the characters could have still seemed more involved and the Endor battle could have been more tense.
